On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:

- Can this behaviour be changed in the configuration of GIMP ?

No

- If not, what is the latest release of GIMP that behaved in the old (and intuitive) way, so I can go back to that version ?

2.6.11

PS Why do the developpers think we all want to use the .xcf format ?

We don't think so.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Here we go again . . . .

PS Why do the developpers think we all want to use the .xcf format ?

It's not like that. It's a change in design from one model to another.

The change is beneficial when you ARE working on an XCF file (in the exact same vein as using Photoshop to work on PSD files, e.g. multi-layer digital compositions). Prior to 2.8 when you "Saved" to something other than an XCF you were constantly warned about things that had to happen (e.g. flattening layers) before GIMP could actually output the file. After that, GIMP lost track of the XCF file, meaning that any subsequent "Save" commands targetted the most recent (non-XCF ) file and if you didn't manually save back to the XCF file before quitting, you could potentially lose edits.

The upside is that Exporting to standard image formats is actually faster in 2.8 than Saving to them was in 2.6 .

The downside is that the change is indeed annoying when all you need GMP for is to open up an image, make a few edits then save back to it, because this does not make GIMP consider the image "Saved" (to an XCF) and you get an extra "Save changes?" prompt when closing the image.

(I also personally disagree with the developer's insistence that GIMP should not give the user an option to switch from the Save dialog to the Export dialogue or vice versa.)

But enough of that. Search the mailing list archives sometime and you will find literally thousands of posts on the Save/Export topic (if the search below is to be believed, in fact over THIRTY THOUSAND): http://www.google.com/custom?q=save+export&domains=mail.gnome.org&hq=inurl%3A%2Farchives%2F&sitesearch=mail.gnome.org

Try giving it a month or two to mentally adjust to selecting "Export" instead of "Save" when you need to output a standard image file format. If you still prefer the old behavior, there are alternatives, such as the "noxcf" fork that preserves the 2.6-style saving behavior:

https://github.com/mskala/noxcf-gimp#readme

-- Stratadrake strata_ranger@hotmail.com
--------------------
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:28:31 +0200

Since Linux is all in favour of freedom of choice

It's just a kernel. Software neither feels, nor judges, nor favours.

how about offering the user an export / save choice in the Preferences dialogues ?

As already discussed before, the answer is 'no'.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:

how about offering the user an export / save choice in the Preferences dialogues ?

As already discussed before, the answer is 'no'.

Why not ?

Do I sense here a case of the Microsoft delusion ? ("We are Gimp of Borg, resistance is futile...")

Sorry, but I'm not in a position to explain your senses. There are professionals that do that kind of job for a wide range of fee, as I'm told.

There reason the team doesn't provide a setting for that is because it's a behaviour change. Which is widely regarded by usability engineers as a sure pathway to hell.

PS Could anyone kindly point me in the direction of a repository for a Debian amd64 gimp 2.6.12 deb file ?

http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gimp

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

There reason the team doesn't provide a setting for that is because it's a behaviour change. Which is widely regarded by usability engineers as a sure pathway to hell.

(That is, the setting for behaviour change :))

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Helen wrote:

Ron said:
Since Linux is all in favour of freedom of choice, how about offering the user an export / save choice in the Preferences dialogues ?

I wish to endorse this. The export feature could have been added without disabling the save as feature. And I, also, have tried to go back to gimp 2.6, but now that I have upgraded to suse 12.3, gimp 2.6 will not work with the latest suse gtk
Helen

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Renaud OLGIATI < renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:28:31 +0200 "Uniklaps" wrote:

When you open a jpg-file in GIMP 2.8 and make changes and save this

again

as jpg, you cannot re-change the changes you made (if file is closed).

If

changes are not necessary, GIMP can save as tif or jpg. (But are you

always

sure, that your work is perfect?) Saving the jpg you worked with as an GIMP xcf-file you can open it

again and

continue your work or go back to changes you made. With an jpg this is

not

possible. But: You should be familiar to the GIMP - feature "layers"

Let us put it this way: If I thought I might want to undo/modify changes later, I would Save As (or Save As Copy) in .xcf; but when I load a .jpg, work on it, and Save, I know that I wont be able to undo changes, and I expect the saved file to replace the original one, not to have the original left untouched and something completely different saved.

Andrew & Bridget wrote:

Just because a program does not perform the way you would like it to,

doesn't make it an inferior program.

No, but it makes it more difficult, and less appealing, to use.

As it has been said before if you don't like it, use something else, no

body makes you use GIMP.

I like GIMP, have liked it for fourteen years; I just dont like GIMP 2.8,

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

- If not, what is the latest release of GIMP that behaved in the old

(and intuitive) way, so I can go back to that version ?

2.6.11

I will be now be looking for the 2.6.11 package since you kindly tols me it is free from that export/save sillyness.

radar.map35@free.fr wrote:

but if Gimp is made easier and safer for most of people, let's trust

our contributors.

Since Linux is all in favour of freedom of choice, how about offering the user an export / save choice in the Preferences dialogues ?

Cheers,

Ron. --
Il est dangereux d'avoir raison dans des choses o des hommes accrdits ont tort. -- Voltaire

-- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --

_______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
gimp-user-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

--
Helen Etters
using Linux, suse12.3

Helen Etters
using Linux, suse12.3

Hi there,

I'd like to point of some issues with a few of the recent mails:

1. Broken threading

Some users apparently reply with mail software which breaks threads, e.g. does not add In-Reply-To: / References: headers to sent messages. This starts a new thread for that message. Users 'Crew' and '.', please check your application settings and ensure that replies are threaded properly. The latter user is also advised to change the name part of the mail address, in order to not be caught by many spam filters.

2. Whole messages /mail histories are quoted

When replying to message in a mailing list, please do not quote the entire previous message history. That's what the message archives are for. Reduce the quoted message to the few lines you're referring to.

Let's keep mail a pleasant communications medium a bit longer.

P.S. the mailing lists are configured to remove HTML and attachments from the messages.

HTH,
Michael

I'd noticed the broken threading too and saw this from "." = David Russel

No less than six digests were waiting to be read this morning, almost entirely cluttered with this nonsense.

I think that explains why every message from him starts a new thread (also with subtlety different subject lines). At least he edits his subject so that it doesn't read "Re:[Gimp-user] Digest ....". I don't know any way to maintain threading when participants are receiving digests and this is why I always request individual emails. GMail does a slightly better job of keeping things together but it shows 5 "threads" with respectively 9, 1 (this one), 32, 25 and 18 each.

Regards ... Alec (buralex@gmail& WinLiveMess - alec.m.burgess@skype)

On 2013-06-15 08:34, Michael Schumacher wrote:

I'd like to point of some issues with a few of the recent mails:

1. Broken threading

Some users apparently reply with mail software which breaks threads, e.g. does not add In-Reply-To: / References: headers to sent messages. This starts a new thread for that message. Users 'Crew' and '.', please check your application settings and ensure that replies are threaded properly. The latter user is also advised to change the name part of the mail address, in order to not be caught by many spam filters.

On Fri, 2013-06-14 at 22:37 -0400, Helen wrote:

The export feature could have been added without disabling the save as feature.

Control-shift-e (export to) works like the old "save as" for non-xcf formats.

Liam

Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml