On 02/19/2010 03:20 PM, Scott wrote:

I'm not even sure what it is called or how to go about a search for it. I would like to have a train go accross the bottom of the picture and stop at the far end.

I did my first animated last night with the searches and I would like this train to go accross the bottom.

This is not a link add just a pic.

http://newbiescentralexch.com/00image/s/exchbann2.gif

I know it needs to be cleaned up.

I don't see animation. Seems like the animation you've attempted should appear in the header1 image; but that's a jpg but not a gif.

On 02/19/2010 11:05 PM, Scott wrote:

I don't see animation. Seems like the animation you've attempted should appear in the header1 image; but that's a jpg but not a gif.

Well it is my first atempt and I just did what the forum post that I was going off of in a search said to do. Looked for a good tutorial for it but couldn't find one.
Yes the train now that I think about it was a jpg. I just took one layer out of an exsisting animation and made my own and saved as a gif. Any links to a good tutorials for this?

I looked at a couple of tutorials for it, and they don't exactly seem to address
your questions very well. They tend to be overly simplified, or assume too much
background knowledge.

WARNING: very wordy post (but I don't know how to help otherwise).

Basically, you need to create a layer for each animation frame. Then you need to
organize the layers in the animation sequence. Then you need to schedule them.

If the animation from which you took that picture has the train moving the way
you want, maybe you can get the whole thing as an animated gif. But please pay
attention to the source copyright if there is one.....

In the case of the train in your jpg image, there are some complications. As the
train runs along the track, it will change size and perspective; it goes behind two
buildings and two trees, and all of that has to be accommodated.

So I would suggest the following process (and I am quite sure there are others
with more skill and experience than I).

1) Decide how fast you want the train to move, and how many frames you need. Five frames per second for four seconds is a total of twenty frames. It's pretty
jerky but may be OK. You can expand if you want, but each frame takes a few minutes of work once the basics are completed.

2) Extract the parts of the two buildings and the two trees behind which the train
will run, and put them together in a separate layer - let's call it the foreground.
I would use the lasso tool for that.

3) Make another layer with the train. Use a careful outline of the train, again with
the lasso tool.

Now come the hard parts. You need to prepare the background layer (remember, Walt Disney hired hundreds of animators to paint cells for his animated movies).
Then you need to create multiple copies of the train with the right size, orientation and perspective. Then you need to place them and combine them with the foreground and background layers. These are the steps I would take.

4) Remove the train image. This involves generating an image of the tracks and
the lawn and stuff where the train occludes them.

5) When you have a satisfactory background image, then make 20 copies of your
carefully excised train. Each copy is a separate layer.

6) Place the twenty trains where you want them on the tracks.

7) Using the perspective and rotate tools, adjust the perspective, size, and orientation
of the train so it looks right on the segment of the track it occupies. Since the image
is two-dimensional and the train is really a three-dimensional object, you may have to
play around a bit to get it to look tolerable.

8) At this point, you might like to hide the foreground and background layers, and
save the result as an animated gif to get the animation to flow the way you want.
This will produce a twenty-frame image of a train running in empty space.

9) Once the train running across the empty space looks good, you are now ready
to create the full image for each of the frames. You'll probably want to save this
gif animation as a separate file for later tweaking. And save the foreground and
background images as well.

10) Now create the frames. Make twenty copies of the foreground and twenty copies
of the background in the xcf image that contains the twenty scaled and rotated
trains. Place a foreground layer above each train image layer, and a background
layer below it. It's probably a good idea to save this image as a temporary checkpoint.
Merge the foreground layer down onto the train image layer, and then merge this layer down into the associated background layer.

11) Under the Filters menu, select Animation->Playback. If the frame sequence is
correct, the train should run along the track behind the two buildings and the two
trees, and then (if you kept the "Looping" box checked) do it all over again.

I guarantee you, if you are anything like me, you won't like your first attempt very
much. But the second will be better, believe me.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Burnie West wrote:

On 02/19/2010 11:05 PM, Scott wrote:

I don't see animation. Seems like the animation you've attempted should appear in the header1 image; but that's a jpg but not a gif.

Well it is my first atempt and I just did what the forum post that I was going off of in a search said to do. Looked for a good tutorial for it but couldn't find one.
Yes the train now that I think about it was a jpg. I just took one layer out of an exsisting animation and made my own and saved as a gif. Any links to a good tutorials for this?

I looked at a couple of tutorials for it, and they don't exactly seem to address
your questions very well. They tend to be overly simplified, or assume too much
background knowledge.

WARNING: very wordy post (but I don't know how to help otherwise).

Basically, you need to create a layer for each animation frame. Then you need to
organize the layers in the animation sequence. Then you need to schedule them.

Or you use GIMP-GAP, which is designed for this kind of thing and has the 'Move path' tool to do pretty much everything except extracting the train :)

On 02/20/2010 01:05 AM, David Gowers wrote:

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Burnie West wrote:

On 02/19/2010 11:05 PM, Scott wrote:

I don't see animation. Seems like the animation you've attempted should appear in the header1 image; but that's a jpg but not a gif.

Well it is my first atempt and I just did what the forum post that I was going off of in a search said to do. Looked for a good tutorial for it but couldn't find one.
Yes the train now that I think about it was a jpg. I just took one layer out of an exsisting animation and made my own and saved as a gif. Any links to a good tutorials for this?

I looked at a couple of tutorials for it, and they don't exactly seem to address
your questions very well. They tend to be overly simplified, or assume too much
background knowledge.

WARNING: very wordy post (but I don't know how to help otherwise).

Basically, you need to create a layer for each animation frame. Then you need to
organize the layers in the animation sequence. Then you need to schedule them.

Or you use GIMP-GAP, which is designed for this kind of thing and has the 'Move path' tool to do pretty much everything except extracting the train :)

AFAICS, GAP move path tool doesn't handle the train scaling, perspective shifts, rotations, foreground occlusions, and the 3-D/2-D aspects. All that would have to be managed by hand on a frame-by-frame basis, would it not?
These leaves the frame compositing and the tracking, which are really the easiest to tackle (at least at my level of expertise).

Burnie West wrote:

AFAICS, GAP move path tool doesn't handle the train scaling, perspective shifts, rotations, foreground occlusions, and the 3-D/2-D aspects. All that would have to be managed by hand on a frame-by-frame basis, would it not?
These leaves the frame compositing and the tracking, which are really the easiest to tackle (at least at my level of expertise).

No, the Move Path tool offers exactly what is needed: you define the path along which the train moves, and you define the transformations on it: zooming in or out, rotating, perspective, fading, and so on.

There are several short tutorials about this tool. In the GIMP book I'm preparing, there will be a full chapter about it.

On 02/20/2010 10:04 AM, Olivier Lecarme wrote:

Burnie West wrote:

AFAICS, GAP move path tool doesn't handle the train scaling, perspective shifts, rotations, foreground occlusions, and the 3-D/2-D aspects. All that would have to be managed by hand on a frame-by-frame basis, would it not?
These leaves the frame compositing and the tracking, which are really the easiest to tackle (at least at my level of expertise).

No, the Move Path tool offers exactly what is needed: you define the path along which the train moves, and you define the transformations on it: zooming in or out, rotating, perspective, fading, and so on.

There are several short tutorials about this tool. In the GIMP book I'm preparing, there will be a full chapter about it.

That's terrific, Oliver. I searched through Akkana Peck's wonderful book Beginning Gimp and with that source I've done a very few animations for fun. But she didn't mention GAP - probably wasn't available at the time she was writing.
I'm looking forward to yours.

Burnie West wrote:

On 02/20/2010 10:04 AM, Olivier Lecarme wrote:

Burnie West wrote:

AFAICS, GAP move path tool doesn't handle the train scaling, perspective shifts, rotations, foreground occlusions, and the 3-D/2-D aspects. All that would have to be managed by hand on a frame-by-frame basis, would it not?
These leaves the frame compositing and the tracking, which are really the easiest to tackle (at least at my level of expertise).

No, the Move Path tool offers exactly what is needed: you define the path along which the train moves, and you define the transformations on it: zooming in or out, rotating, perspective, fading, and so on.

There are several short tutorials about this tool. In the GIMP book I'm preparing, there will be a full chapter about it.

That's terrific, Oliver. I searched through Akkana Peck's wonderful book Beginning Gimp and with that source I've done a very few animations for fun. But she didn't mention GAP - probably wasn't available at the time she was writing. I'm looking forward to yours.

Unfortunately, you'll have to be patient. Since the book will be a large one, and we try to synchronize it with version 2.8 of GIMP, you'll have to wait for one year (hopefully not more).

Quoting Scott :

hey thanks all for the information. I just noticed that the link in the original post is bad. It is supposed to be images/ - not image/s/. I think that will make things a lot easier.

So do you mean you just want a train moving across the bottom of the banner? -- for example, something similar to:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/eb521b8ef6.gif

On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 23:56 +0100, Scott wrote:

Hi all and thanks for oall the comments. I finally figured out how to install the gap into my gimp. Now that I look at the settings I am more confused as ever. Can someone help me get started on this.

Have you had a look at the introductory GAP tutorial at the gimp.org web-site?

http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Using_GAP/

Sven

Scott wrote:

Yes I have read that one as well as a dozen others. I found a realy good one for beginers.

http://www.gimptalk.com/forum/gap-beginner-tutorial-set-t9266.html

The problem I am having now is that when I go to video/move path and then try and edit the source image layer it is empty. How do I get the image in it.

If you give me a personal address (forums@gimpusers.com is not), I could send you more detailed explanations.

Quoting Scott :

The problem I am having now is that when I go to video/move path and then try and edit the source image layer it is empty. How do I get the image in it.

For your source image to be available to Move Path, it must be of the same base type (RGB, Grayscale, or Indexed) as the target image. For example, if your source image came from a GIF file then it is likely still in Indexed mode, and must be converted to RGB mode before it can be used by Move Path.

Scott wrote:

Hey thanks for the information. That was the problem was the image was in index mode. Changed it over to RGB and got things to work. I am sitll having problems but making progress.

Hey Olivier I could definatly use some help here. If you would like to contact me at scottpersonal61@gmail.com I would appreciate it.

I'll do it today.

Here is what I have got so far and you can see the problem. I also would like the train to go a lot slower and also stop at the end. The train is only 2 cars long. Tried it like a dozen times and did get it to slow up once but still get the other effects.

http://newbiescentralexch.com/00images/splash/animtrain.gif

To slow up the movement, you need to set the delay in each frame to more than the default. To make each new frame hide the preceding one, you need to set it in (replace) mode. Thus the name of a given frame would be

frame#xx (replace) (200ms)

for example. Then the train would simply move on the Web page. To stop it at the end, you need to replace the image itself by another one, or at least put a very very long delay in the last frame, say 100000ms.

However, when you will use GAP's Move Path tool, it will be much easier, and above all you will be able to have a stable landscape behind the train, without being obliged to copy and merge the corresponding layer with all frames of the animation.

The problem I am having now is that when I go to video/move path and then >try and edit the source image layer it is empty. How do I get the image in it.

Gap is more geared towards "Frames" then "Layers" animation

Meaning that your input image may be a layer but a layer of a frame ("Frames" are images, but name with a progressive number..as 00001-image.xcf a frame may have only 1 or more layer )

Its a quite important point if you don't want work with frames but only with single image with many layers may be better found some alternative to GAP

As example this script http://www.gimptalk.com/forum/-script-fu-move-layers-similar-to-gap%CA%B9s-move-path--t46740.html

and the other of same author you will found in the first page of that board

About the advantage of Frames anymationVS layer animation is simple: a complex animation may require a lot of layer to be smooth And a image with some hundreds of layer may easily become too big, as file size , may become impossible save or open it without crashes

Working with frames if your computer has sufficient memory to process the first, then will be able to process also the others (since once created they are automatically saved and loaded only when needed ..they don't need to be all loaded simultaneously But in case of layers of same image is the contrary, you may not load only a couple of layer but only all the image