Using Gimp 2.6.6 on Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy) Linux. on K Desktop Environment 3.5.10

I would like to check with others whether or not these issues are unique to me, my installation, or my desktop environment....

If they are bugs, I will report them or others are welcome to do so (but please tell me if you do).

1) Missing mnemonics on menus. For example, under FILE, "Create" has no labeled mnemonic.

2) Duplicated mnemonics on menus. For example, under EDIT, the letter "p" is used ***THREE*** times, making it useless in a production environment. As long as the same image is open, doing "ALT e p" cycles through the the three occurrences of the "p" mnemonic. If it is the first time with the image, then it always goes to the first occurrence. Very obnoxious!

3) Misdirected mnemonics. (This one may be a lack of understanding of menu mnemonics on my part.) "ALT e p" [!!! may have to hit "p" multiple times to arrive at the correct desired location of PASTE AS] to get to PASTE AS. This exposes the fly-out/sub-menu. The sub-menu includes NEW IMAGE with a mnemonic of "n". However, typing an "n" at this moment does not utilize the fly-out menu, it goes to UNITS on the main EDIT menu. What is the point of having a mnemonic on the flyout/sub-menu if you can't access them without using the arrow keys to get into the flyout/sub-menu by which time you are focused on the desired item anyway and can just hit return.

4) Non-functioning keystrokes / keyboard shortcut listed on the menus. Specifically for me at the moment, "CTRL SHIFT V" is supposed to create a new file from the clipboard contents. This set of keystrokes is stated in TWO places:

FILE, CREATE, FROM CLIPBOARD and
EDIT, PASTE AS, NEW IMAGE

Both should accomplish the same thing, but on my system, it does nothing at all.

This is really annoying because tomorrow I have to have a staff member use this functionality 297 times. Argh!

(Yes, I know that as long as we use keystrokes to get to the menu, we can "walk" though it using the arrow keys. It is just annoying.)

Jay

On 05/05/2009 09:35 PM, Owen wrote:

Using Gimp 2.6.6 on Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy) Linux. on K Desktop Environment 3.5.10

I would like to check with others whether or not these issues are unique
to me, my installation, or my desktop environment....

If they are bugs, I will report them or others are welcome to do so (but
please tell me if you do).

1) Missing mnemonics on menus. For example, under FILE, "Create" has no
labeled mnemonic.

2) Duplicated mnemonics on menus. For example, under EDIT, the letter "p" is used ***THREE*** times, making it useless in a production environment. As long as the same image is open, doing "ALT e p" cycles
through the the three occurrences of the "p" mnemonic. If it is the first time with the image, then it always goes to the first occurrence.
Very obnoxious!

3) Misdirected mnemonics. (This one may be a lack of understanding of menu mnemonics on my part.) "ALT e p" [!!! may have to hit "p" multiple
times to arrive at the correct desired location of PASTE AS] to get to PASTE AS. This exposes the fly-out/sub-menu. The sub-menu includes NEW
IMAGE with a mnemonic of "n". However, typing an "n" at this moment does not utilize the fly-out menu, it goes to UNITS on the main EDIT menu. What is the point of having a mnemonic on the flyout/sub-menu if
you can't access them without using the arrow keys to get into the flyout/sub-menu by which time you are focused on the desired item anyway
and can just hit return.

4) Non-functioning keystrokes / keyboard shortcut listed on the menus. Specifically for me at the moment, "CTRL SHIFT V" is supposed to create
a new file from the clipboard contents. This set of keystrokes is stated in TWO places:

FILE, CREATE, FROM CLIPBOARD and
EDIT, PASTE AS, NEW IMAGE

Both should accomplish the same thing, but on my system, it does nothing at all.

This is really annoying because tomorrow I have to have a staff member use this functionality 297 times. Argh!

(Yes, I know that as long as we use keystrokes to get to the menu, we
can "walk" though it using the arrow keys. It is just annoying.)

OWEN SAID....

Hi,

Let's start off saying that the problem is yours.

There is something seriously wrong with your installation.

I don't know how far your Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 has been upgraded, but you cannot install 2.6.6 without two major libraries that were not in the 8.04 distribution, and as well, GTK (and GLIB) need to be updated for 2.6.6 to work

So perhaps you can explain how you got 2.6.6 onto your 8.04 or, just go the 9.04 route where you won't have these problems.

Hi Owen,

Thanks. I had no idea that it did not work because other than a couple little niggling things like this it has been working great. We have been keeping the Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 up to date every 5-15 days and have been doing so since about November 2008. I can only assume that the dependency checking stuff grabbed the additional libraries needed if we did not already have them. We run a lot of stuff, and run it hard, on 8.04 and so far everything is working, except for the occasional odd items like I have described.

I will inquire further with my guy who maintains the Ubuntu.

Jay

On 05/05/2009 10:06 PM, David Gowers wrote:

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jay Smith wrote:

Using Gimp 2.6.6 on Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy) Linux. on K Desktop Environment 3.5.10

I would like to check with others whether or not these issues are unique to me, my installation, or my desktop environment....

If they are bugs, I will report them or others are welcome to do so (but please tell me if you do).

1) Missing mnemonics on menus. For example, under FILE, "Create" has no labeled mnemonic.

See my reply below to 2). Sometimes, there is just not the mnemonic available. I believe that 'Save a _Copy' uses the mnemonic that could otherwise be used for 'Create', and the developers judged that Save a Copy would be used more often than the Create menu. 'e' might be available, though.

Please note that you could also press Alt+F, DOWN,RIGHT to enter the Create submenu.

Also, if you use the Create submenu a lot, consider tearing it off (rightclick in an image window, then leftclick on the dashed line at the top of a submenu) and using it more directly.

2) Duplicated mnemonics on menus. For example, under EDIT, the letter "p" is used ***THREE*** times, making it useless in a production environment. As long as the same image is open, doing "ALT e p" cycles through the the three occurrences of the "p" mnemonic. If it is the first time with the image, then it always goes to the first occurrence. Very obnoxious!

This is very hard to avoid, unfortunately. The edit menu is large, and there are only 26 characters to use as mnemonics (actually other characters like numerics and punctuation are also possible, but usually not used.) I managed to resolve most conflicts in my Lojban translation, however Lojban has better distribution of letters (meaning that the name for some particular action is more likely to contain a uniquely usable character than eg. English). I have looked at this problem before, and concluded that we would have to start using numbers and punctuation as mnemonics in order to avoid significant conflicts. It is already possible to do so, but GIMP avoids this, as do most programs.

Keeping in mind that it is impossible to resolve all mnemonic conflicts even in a small menu (due to plugins being able to add menu items which can have mnemonics), if you have a proposition which will resolve most of the current conflicts in a reasonable way, even if this is limited just to the File menu, please enlighten us.

3) Misdirected mnemonics. (This one may be a lack of understanding of menu mnemonics on my part.) "ALT e p" [!!! may have to hit "p" multiple times to arrive at the correct desired location of PASTE AS] to get to PASTE AS. This exposes the fly-out/sub-menu. The sub-menu includes NEW IMAGE with a mnemonic of "n". However, typing an "n" at this moment does not utilize the fly-out menu, it goes to UNITS on the main EDIT menu. What is the point of having a mnemonic on the flyout/sub-menu if you can't access them without using the arrow keys to get into the flyout/sub-menu by which time you are focused on the desired item anyway and can just hit return.

What the user means at that time is ambiguous. (access 'Units'? or something in the submenu?).
Consequently, you need to press Enter first to confirm that you want to move into the submenu rather than access some other item on the same level.

4) Non-functioning keystrokes / keyboard shortcut listed on the menus. Specifically for me at the moment, "CTRL SHIFT V" is supposed to create

CTRL+SHIFT+V, just to be clear. A single, chorded key combination. If this is really not working for you, I do think there is a problem with your installation (or your desktop environment -- see below). The other 3 points you brought up are verifiable.

a new file from the clipboard contents. This set of keystrokes is stated in TWO places:

FILE, CREATE, FROM CLIPBOARD and
EDIT, PASTE AS, NEW IMAGE

Both should accomplish the same thing, but on my system, it does nothing at all.

This is really annoying because tomorrow I have to have a staff member use this functionality 297 times. Argh!

(Yes, I know that as long as we use keystrokes to get to the menu, we can "walk" though it using the arrow keys. It is just annoying.)

All keyboard shortcuts are accurate. If they don't work, chances are you don't actually have something on the clipboard, or you have another program (eg KDE) which is stealing that key combination and preventing GIMP from catching it.

Personally, that combination works as expected for me; I just Edit->Copied something, then pressed CTRL+SHIFT+V and a new image window containing what I copied appeared.

David

Hi David,

Thanks for your input.

I will look over the menus and if I have some useful ideas for non-duplicative and available mnemonics, I will make a proposal.

Thanks for the tear-off idea. I am still having great difficulty getting my head around that concept (that it is even possible to do). This is something that should probably be played up in the Gimp "marketing". Maybe I don't get around much, but I have not run into any other programs that have such a useful feature. It is a great selling point. (Anything to convert folks in this direction...) ;-)

Yes, I miswrote CTRL+SHIFT+V ... but I have been using it correctly. I will look at the KDE to see if it is stealing the input -- I had failed to consider that possibility. There IS something in the clipboard; when I do the same function through the menu system I get the desired result.

Jay

On 05/05/2009 09:36 PM, bgw wrote:

I'm using Fedora 10; GIMP 2.6.6.

Jay Smith wrote:

Using Gimp 2.6.6 on Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy) Linux. on K Desktop Environment 3.5.10

I would like to check with others whether or not these issues are unique to me, my installation, or my desktop environment....

If they are bugs, I will report them or others are welcome to do so (but please tell me if you do).

1) Missing mnemonics on menus. For example, under FILE, "Create" has no labeled mnemonic.

I don't understand this problem.

Hi BGW,

In the main menu, under "File" one of the items is "Create". There is no underlined letter in the entry for "Create". Thus I can't do something _like_ "alt f t" (or whatever) to get to the "Sub-menu".

2) Duplicated mnemonics on menus. For example, under EDIT, the letter "p" is used ***THREE*** times, making it useless in a production environment. As long as the same image is open, doing "ALT e p" cycles through the the three occurrences of the "p" mnemonic. If it is the first time with the image, then it always goes to the first occurrence. Very obnoxious!

In my system, ALT E followed by a letter seems to select an entry whose first character is that letter:
Paste, Paste as, and Preferences.

It is not selecting the "first character". It is selecting the defined mnemonic which is represented by the underlined character. It may be that in your installation the underlining has been turned off under "Edit, Preferences, Interface, Keyboard Shortcuts..."

This may not be the best way to choose an action, so I guess it's useless. But what are you trying to accomplish with ALT e p

I agree that having more than one action defined with the same mnemonic is close to useless.

In this instance, it is not so much what I am trying to accomplish as it is that I am inquiring if others feel that this is a bug.

But, what I am trying to accomplish is a quick way to create a new file using the contents (including SIZE) of a selection in the paste buffer. As addressed below.

3) Misdirected mnemonics. (This one may be a lack of understanding of menu mnemonics on my part.) "ALT e p" [!!! may have to hit "p" multiple times to arrive at the correct desired location of PASTE AS] to get to PASTE AS. This exposes the fly-out/sub-menu. The sub-menu includes NEW IMAGE with a mnemonic of "n". However, typing an "n" at this moment does not utilize the fly-out menu, it goes to UNITS on the main EDIT menu. What is the point of having a mnemonic on the flyout/sub-menu if you can't access them without using the arrow keys to get into the flyout/sub-menu by which time you are focused on the desired item anyway and can just hit return.

When I execute
select
copy
SHIFT+CTRL+p
I get a new image with the selection that was on the clipboard. There seems to be no need to index through the various submenus to get there. The keyboard mnemonic is unique.

I don't.

What I get is the PATTERNS showing up in the window with the Layers, Channels, Brushes, etc., etc.

I am glad that (CTRL+SHIFT+p) works for you, but the menu system specifically, in two places says it is "CTRL+SHIFT+V". And that does NOT work for me.

4) Non-functioning keystrokes / keyboard shortcut listed on the menus. Specifically for me at the moment, "CTRL SHIFT V" is supposed to create a new file from the clipboard contents. This set of keystrokes is stated in TWO places:

FILE, CREATE, FROM CLIPBOARD and
EDIT, PASTE AS, NEW IMAGE

Both should accomplish the same thing, but on my system, it does nothing at all.

In my installation, SHIFT+CTRL+V creates a new image with the clipboard contents, as expected.
Not sure how you are getting there from the discussion above.

Perhaps you have misread some of what I have written above. Or perhaps there is something broken (as Owen suggests) about my installation.

This is really annoying because tomorrow I have to have a staff member use this functionality 297 times. Argh!

(Yes, I know that as long as we use keystrokes to get to the menu, we can "walk" though it using the arrow keys. It is just annoying.)

Jay

On 05/06/2009 12:01 PM, Nathan Lane wrote:

As an update, I don't see that any keyboard shortcuts are set to Alt+E in my keyboard shortcuts default list. Naturally because the Edit menu has the mnemonic E and Alt refers directly to the menu system in Windows (I don't know what OS you are using), I expect Alt+E to open the Edit menu. In the Edit menu, I do see that three items have P underlined, but Alt+P does not affect them, and both Paste and Paste As sub items have their keyboard shortcuts. Preferences does not have a keyboard shortcut listed next to it, but I can just as easily use my arrow buttons or mouse to open that item. I don't understand the complaint fully.

2009/5/6 Nathan Lane >

Uhm, you can change your "mnemonics" or keyboard shortcuts Edit > Preferences > Interface > Configure Keyboard Shortcuts... and just take care of it for yourself. There's not really a reason for that to be a bug when it's fully configurable.

2009/5/6 Jernej Simon?i? >

On Tue, 05 May 2009 18:36:00 -0700, bgw wrote:

> In my system, ALT E followed by a letter seems to select an entry whose
> first character is that letter: > Paste, Paste as, and Preferences.

IMHO, this should count as a bug - mnemonics should be unique, and every
item should have a mnemonic (which isn't necessarily the first letter).

--
< Jernej Simon+AQ0-i+AQ0- ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

Nathan,

1) Edit, Preferences does have a mnemonic of p (the p is underlined). While not a "keyboard shortcut", it is in the category of a productivity enhancer because one goal is to avoid having to use a mouse. Mice just slow down most things -- and cause health problems.

2) The problem is that "ALT+e p" (hold ALT while typing e, then type a p by itself)

results in ONE of THREE different things happening depending upon whether or not you have done that action previously or not (it cycles through the three possibilities) in that session of editing that image.

The way that this is supposed to work is that one should be able to do such actions *without looking* at the monitor to see what the status is. In other words, one should be able to type

"ALT+e p"

and *every* time get the exact same result without regard to whether or not you have done that action previously in that session of editing that image. Have to look & watch & be careful is not productive and causes lots of errors.

3) As to your comment that because you can configure something to correct undesired behavior it is not a bug... I do *not* accept that. That would be like saying though a program crashes without special configuration, if you do some special configuration it won't crash, thus the crashing is not a bug. While my comparison is extreme, I respectfully submit that this "not a bug because..." approach to thinking about it is a *huge* reason why non-technical folks find so much open-source software to be "not ready for the desktop". We, who are interested in moving forward the spread of open-source software, should be paying very close attention to the ORDINARY USER EXPERIENCE and we should be doing everything we can to make things work extremely smoothly right out of the box. We should not "dumb down" software, but we sure should try everything possible to make it work smoothly and in an expected, repeatable manner. Just my opinion!

Jay