Hi,

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 17:37 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

RC3 has replace layer mode as default in blend dialog, which is wrong (it should be normal). Is it already fixed?

That's most probably saved in your tool-options, it's not the "factory" default. Have you tried to reset the tool-options to default values?

Sven

Hi,

On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 09:19 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

I've reset the options, restarted GIMP, but nothing has changed. Blend dialog still has the second position in the combobox active - Replace instead of the first one - Normal.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing. Actually, I don't think that my version of GIMP has a "Blend dialog". What exactly are you refering to?

Sven

On 10/12/07, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

:) As I have Russian locale, it was my translation, and I missed function and realization. I was speaking on fade in Edit menu.

Confirmed. In "Edit -Fade" Replace is default blending mode. But that's for ages. I don't remember times when it was different.

Alexandre

By the way, what does the "replace" mode do in the fade dialog? It seems to have no effect when you adjust the slider. I understand why Alexander found it odd. I agree that the "normal" type should be the default (and the most expectable behaviour as well). Anyway, I'd like to know what is "replace" for.

Gez.

gimp-developer-request@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU escribió:

Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gimp-developer-request@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU

You can reach the person managing the list at gimp-developer-owner@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Is default "replace" mode in blend dialog of RC3 replaced with normal in SVN? (Alexander Rabtchevich) 2. Re: Is default "replace" mode in blend dialog of RC3 replaced with normal in SVN? (Alexandre Prokoudine) 3. Re: Is default "replace" mode in blend dialog of RC3 replaced with normal in SVN? (Alexander Rabtchevich) 4. Re: Help needed for the gimp web site (Rapha?l Quinet)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:34:23 +0300 From: Alexander Rabtchevich
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Is default "replace" mode in blend dialog of RC3 replaced with normal in SVN? To: Sven Neumann
Cc: gimp-devel
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed

:) As I have Russian locale, it was my translation, and I missed function and realization. I was speaking on fade in Edit menu.

Sven Neumann wrote:

Hi,

On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 09:19 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

I've reset the options, restarted GIMP, but nothing has changed. Blend dialog still has the second position in the combobox active - Replace instead of the first one - Normal.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing. Actually, I don't think that my version of GIMP has a "Blend dialog". What exactly are you refering to?

Sven

--
With respect
Alexander Rabtchevich

------------------------------

Message: 2 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:45:51 +0400 From: "Alexandre Prokoudine"
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Is default "replace" mode in blend dialog of RC3 replaced with normal in SVN? To: "Gimp Devel List"
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 10/12/07, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

:) As I have Russian locale, it was my translation, and I missed function and realization. I was speaking on fade in Edit menu.

Confirmed. In "Edit -Fade" Replace is default blending mode. But that's for ages. I don't remember times when it was different.

Alexandre

------------------------------

Message: 3 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:46:48 +0300 From: Alexander Rabtchevich
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Is default "replace" mode in blend dialog of RC3 replaced with normal in SVN? To: Alexandre Prokoudine
Cc: Gimp Devel List
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

OK, but to work it should be Normal :).

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On 10/12/07, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

:) As I have Russian locale, it was my translation, and I missed function and realization. I was speaking on fade in Edit menu.

Confirmed. In "Edit -Fade" Replace is default blending mode. But that's for ages. I don't remember times when it was different.

Alexandre

--
With respect
Alexander Rabtchevich

------------------------------

Message: 4 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:17:40 +0200 From: Rapha?l Quinet
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Help needed for the gimp web site To: gimp-web@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:11:41 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

Just to be clear on release notes: not only cheap lens can have vignetting. Some expensive zooms have it at wide angle.

Yesterday, I changed the sentence about vignetting to read: "[...] when using cheaper lenses or expensive lenses pushed to their limits [...]"

By the way, I see that you sent your message to both lists (gimp-web and gimp-developer) but it looks like your message never made it to the gimp-web list. You must subscribe to the gimp-web list before you post to it, otherwise your message will be dropped. Do not believe any automatic reply telling you that your message will be reviewed by a moderator or something like that: if you are not a subscriber, your message will never reach the list.

-Rapha?l

------------------------------

Hi,

On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 09:34 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

:) As I have Russian locale, it was my translation, and I missed function and realization. I was speaking on fade in Edit menu.

This hasn't changed since 2.4rc3. The mode is initialized from the mode that was used by the operation you are fading. It depends on what you are fading.

Sven

Hi,

On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 12:46 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

I use fading mostly after sharpening with refocus plug-in. And when the dialog initializes it has Replace mode set. But using fade operation with replace mode has no effect! This has been confirmed by Guillermo Espertino. So in order to obtain fading I have to change the mode to Normal each time.

I guess it doesn't matter what mode has been used by the plug-in before. It does matter what for the dialog was designed - it was designed for fading. And in the current state it does not work for me.

When a plug-in effect is applied to the image, this is done in "Replace" mode. In contrast to "Normal mode" where pixels with an alpha value != 255 are composited, "Replace" mode allows plug-ins to modifiy the alpha channel directly.

It does matter a lot what mode has been used by the operation you are fading. For the way the Fade operation is implemented, it is absolutely necessary that the dialog is instantiated with the correct mode and the opacity set to 100%. We can't change how the dialog works, at least not without major changes. If you are unhappy with the Fade operation, feel free to ignore it.

Sven

Hi,

On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 13:52 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

Is it possible at least
to remember and recall the last mode the dialog was used within the session

No, and I already explained that. It is vital that the dialog is instantiated with the mode of the operation that you want to fade. Changing this would break the Fade feature. So we can either keep it as it is or remove it entirely.

Sven

Ok with the need of the replace mode as the initial state of the Fade Tool, but what use does it have?
I mean, in practical terms, you applied a filter, you want to fade back to the previous state... What's the "replace" mode use in that case? (if you drag the slider nothing happens). For the eyes of the user, the default mode does nothing, and that's a problem. It doesn't even "fade" unless you change it to another blending mode.
If it's needed internally, ok. But there isn't apparently a reason to have it in the interface as an available mode. I mean: If I can change it from "replace" to "normal" manually, can't that sequence be performed at the moment of opening the dialog automatically?

Maybe I'm missing something, but if I apply a filter, open the "fade" dialog and move the slider without changing the mode and hit Ok. What is the effect? That's why I'm asking.

Oh, and by the way, why don't the levels and curves tools work with the fade tool?

Gez.

Hi,

you are of course right that the current dialog is less than ideal. However changing the initial mode to "Normal" would be incorrect, even though it would improve the usability of the Fade dialog quite a bit.

I will think about it some more and talk to Mitch. Perhaps we can even accept a small incorrectness in the user interface here.

Sven

Sven Neumann gimp.org> writes:

Hi,

you are of course right that the current dialog is less than ideal. However changing the initial mode to "Normal" would be incorrect, even though it would improve the usability of the Fade dialog quite a bit.

I will think about it some more and talk to Mitch. Perhaps we can even accept a small incorrectness in the user interface here.

Sven

Sven, can you explain what you mean by "incorrect"? I think the blend mode in the fade UI should be removed altogether. As people here already commented, even if behind the screen "replace" is set initially, it should be changed to "normal" automatically. After all, only the "normal" mode has the desired influence of actually fading the last effect. If it's called "fade" and it doesn't fade, it's of no use.

Hi,

Sven, can you explain what you mean by "incorrect"?

I have explained it several times already. I don't think that I can explain it any better. There are internals involved here and we can't just change the user interface because of these internals.

I think the blend mode in the fade UI should be removed altogether. As people here already commented, even if behind the screen "replace" is set initially, it should be changed to "normal" automatically. After all, only the "normal" mode has the desired influence of actually fading the last effect. If it's called "fade" and it doesn't fade, it's of no use.

Ok then we will have to remove it, as we can't change it. That's sad because it's a nice feature. But if so many people don't understand it, then it should probably be removed. I will make a patch for that then.

Sven

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:01:06 +0200, Sven Neumann wrote:

If it's called "fade" and it doesn't fade, it's of no use.

NO. If it does something it can not be described as "of no use". That is nonsense. It may be called obscure , buggy or misleading if it does not work in an intuitive way in the UI. That's an other issue. There's plenty of cool features in Gimp that you just need to know about to use.

If you think it's useless dont use it. But please dont start stamping you feet and try to stop others using it because it does not work just how it should.

Ok then we will have to remove it, as we can't change it. That's sad because it's a nice feature. But if so many people don't understand it, then it should probably be removed. I will make a patch for that then. Sven

Like you say , it sad to remove a nice feature just because it does not tie in to the interface as expected.

Why not just mark the underlying problem of the structure as a FIXME, the major porting of the code to GEGL would be an *ideal* time for this to be taken into account. The more idiosincracies like this that get flagged the better that restructuring can be done.

I think papering over this issue by removing fade would actually be detrimental to the work on moving to GEGL.

regards, gg

On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 09:53 +0300, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote:

Sven, please, do not remove such a nice feature. Some interface problems is not the reason.

Ok then we will have to remove it, as we can't change it. That's sad because it's a nice feature. But if so many people don't understand it, then it should probably be removed. I will make a patch for that then.

There was a bug in the underlying code which is fixed now. Stop panicking :-)
the feature is still there.

ciao, --mitch