On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Akira Tanaka wrote:

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in "a letter of complaint."

Thank you

Anywho, here's the problem that I faced with GIMP yesterday. There is a PSD file converted from SAI that I tried opening with GIMP. I was able to beforehand up until that morning in which an error message popped up saying "unsupported compression mode." I wasn't sure why I was getting this error, because I could open up the file beforehand without penalty. I probably don't deserve any pointers after that episode from yesterday, but just thought I'd bring up what happened now that I've put things into perspective.

It would make sense submitting the file to the bug tracker so that it could be looked at.

The PSD import plug-in was last looked at quite a long time ago, and the person who rewrote it isn't available presently (at least, I haven't heard from him for last three years), but if there's a bug, it should be tracked.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

I am not intimately familiar with all the compression modes that the plugin supports, but I'll give a stab at a possible cause. The P$D file format provides support for several compression types in it's PSD format. LSW(native), JPG, RLE, plus image pyramid options. It might be possible that during the export from SAI, one of these options was included. I attempted to download SAI to test it on my end (from sai.detstwo.c*m ), but my ClamAV shows the install file as infected. I would be willing to give it a go if someone can point me to a clean download. Sorry I can't test the theory on this end just yet, but I do hope the idea helps.

On 07/24/2012 10:33 AM, Akira Tanaka wrote:

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in "a letter of complaint."

Anywho, here's the problem that I faced with GIMP yesterday. There is a PSD file converted from SAI that I tried opening with GIMP. I was able to beforehand up until that morning in which an error message popped up saying "unsupported compression mode." I wasn't sure why I was getting this error, because I could open up the file beforehand without penalty. I probably don't deserve any pointers after that episode from yesterday, but just thought I'd bring up what happened now that I've put things into perspective.

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On 24/07/12 18:33, Akira Tanaka wrote:

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in "a letter of complaint."

Well that seems an honest , full and sincere apology. If I'd felt I was the target I'd be satisfied. Anyone who can eat that much humble pie in one helping deserves to be excused.

Though it was clearly out of order, it was so outrageous I think it caused more amusement than anything else.

We don't get much comic relief on gimp-developer. You brightened my day and for that I thank you.

If you can identify a serious bug, there's a good chance it will get fixed because bugs should be fixed. It's not a case of whether the reporter "deserves help" , the code base deserve help.

If you can define a reproducible problem please report it.

Best regards,

gg.

mr. Tanaka,

I use GIMP since the year 2000 Maybe I can help you to identify some key points in your "crash experience" I've used GIMP for almost every artwork I've done along Photoshop - just because some things goes faster (not as computing speed) but as operation logic ( workflow if you like ...) and for me those crashes your talk about ...they are a wonder for me.

For me GIMP 2.X until 2.7 was extremely stable under Windows or Linux.

I remember one time - in less than 24 hours I must prepare a 5.5m x 3.5m poster for a factory expecting a visit from an international customer. The computer was prepared for web design not for prepress and large scale graphics. I can open all images from their list in Photoshop but I can't save the work because ...insufficient memory. Then for almost any layer movement Photoshop put me to wait long time when not just crashed. GIMP (2.4 if I remember well) just save my day because printing factory called me every 5 minutes.

Until Photoshop CS4 for also, important operations like "liquid rescale" and "content aware fill in PS" (aka "heal selection" on GIMP) was only possible in GIMP (and some small demonstrative programs). But for prepress I was forced to use Photoshop under Windows and Linux.

Regarding so many crashes something must go wrong with the hardware - GIMP use a quite modular plugin system - so many custom plugins will crash without affecting the application.

Send me a separate message with your problems one by one - so we can solve things out of this mailing list.

I have a lot of GIMP plugins, themes, and some good experience, probably I can help you to earn some time...

Other readers of this list may help you also - if you can express very clear what you need.
If you can speak clear, it's almost improbable that one or another will not throw a helping hand.

BTW - please don't hate me for analogy with An American in Rome, is an italian movie from 1954, I am sure you will like this movie too ;).

2012/7/25 :

On 24/07/12 18:33, Akira Tanaka wrote:

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in "a letter of complaint."

Well that seems an honest , full and sincere apology. If I'd felt I was the target I'd be satisfied. Anyone who can eat that much humble pie in one helping deserves to be excused.

Though it was clearly out of order, it was so outrageous I think it caused more amusement than anything else.

We don't get much comic relief on gimp-developer. You brightened my day and for that I thank you.

If you can identify a serious bug, there's a good chance it will get fixed because bugs should be fixed. It's not a case of whether the reporter "deserves help" , the code base deserve help.

If you can define a reproducible problem please report it.

Best regards,

gg.

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gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
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Well, as an user who read the list it came to my mind the implementation of auto-save in Gimp. I guess you already had that discussion, but I think that a good software is the one that understand that us, mere mortals human beings, make a lot of mistakes and try in some manner to reduce the range of these mistakes.

I know that inkscape tries to write a backup file whenever he crashes, and it display a message to the user, whenever is possible, saying where the file is. I don't know if gimp does that, but /i think it's a very good idea.

Also, there are softwares like blender wich gives the option of saving incremental files (like file0001.tga, file0002.tga...). Mine's a strange mind; I think that implementing this option is more useful in a way that it suggests to user "hey, it's a good idea to have incremental backups" than the feature itself. It's like a suggestion of workflow.

Also, an autosave wich can be configured would be a good idea. It would be interesting if the number of backup files could also be set... So, if I choose to have only one backup file, every x minutes gimp writes the same file with the backup. I've used a program that does that. I always used it in one, so I don't really know the behaviour with more files...

Well, these are just suggestions of a humble user :)

Em 24-07-2012 15:31, sus@piments.com escreveu:

On 24/07/12 18:33, Akira Tanaka wrote:

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it. I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in "a letter of complaint."

Well that seems an honest , full and sincere apology. If I'd felt I was the target I'd be satisfied. Anyone who can eat that much humble pie in one helping deserves to be excused.

Though it was clearly out of order, it was so outrageous I think it caused more amusement than anything else.

We don't get much comic relief on gimp-developer. You brightened my day and for that I thank you.

If you can identify a serious bug, there's a good chance it will get fixed because bugs should be fixed. It's not a case of whether the reporter "deserves help" , the code base deserve help.

If you can define a reproducible problem please report it.

Best regards,

gg. _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

On 25-07-2012 16:14, wanderer wrote:

Well, as an user who read the list it came to my mind the implementation of auto-save in Gimp. I guess you already had that discussion, but I think that a good software is the one that understand that us, mere mortals human beings, make a lot of mistakes and try in some manner to reduce the range of these mistakes.

This is an interesting point. I've recently trying out Lightworks for video editing, and I like the fact that it does not have "save" in it's workflow. Rather, it just saves every operation.

I know that inkscape tries to write a backup file whenever he crashes, and it display a message to the user, whenever is possible, saying where the file is. I don't know if gimp does that, but /i think it's a very good idea.

Not just inkscape, but I believe that Emacs, Vim and other text editors also create a backup file. AFAIK, the backup file is autosaved, and the original is kept as is, in case the user wishes to throw away all changes.

Also, there are softwares like blender wich gives the option of saving incremental files (like file0001.tga, file0002.tga...). Mine's a strange mind; I think that implementing this option is more useful in a way that it suggests to user "hey, it's a good idea to have incremental backups" than the feature itself. It's like a suggestion of workflow.

Incremental backups with .xcf files? In my workflow, each .xcf photograph ends up orders of magnitude larger than the DNG files that make up the photograph (with the many layers that get added in the workflow). Not sure if I'd like incremental backups :)

Also, an autosave wich can be configured would be a good idea. It would be interesting if the number of backup files could also be set... So, if I choose to have only one backup file, every x minutes gimp writes the same file with the backup. I've used a program that does that. I always used it in one, so I don't really know the behaviour with more files...

Well, these are just suggestions of a humble user :)

Em 24-07-2012 15:31, sus@piments.com escreveu:

On 24/07/12 18:33, Akira Tanaka wrote:

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP. I feel that my actions were juvenile, immature and socially unacceptable. I haven't bothered to update the software and in a fit of misguided and dumb rage, I unleashed that attack against those who did not deserve it.
I'm not a victim, I just made a foolish mistake out of anger. And for that I apologize. I meant no disrespect to any of you and I'm pretty sure I'd give GIMP another chance with its newest version. So please disregard everything that was said in "a letter of complaint."

Well that seems an honest , full and sincere apology. If I'd felt I was the target I'd be satisfied. Anyone who can eat that much humble pie in one helping deserves to be excused.

Though it was clearly out of order, it was so outrageous I think it caused more amusement than anything else.

We don't get much comic relief on gimp-developer. You brightened my day and for that I thank you.

If you can identify a serious bug, there's a good chance it will get fixed because bugs should be fixed. It's not a case of whether the reporter "deserves help" , the code base deserve help.

If you can define a reproducible problem please report it.

Best regards,

gg. _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

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gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:33:22 -0700 From: artfoundry87@yahoo.com
To: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
Subject: [Gimp-developer] Update and apology

Yesterday, I wrote a letter out of frustration in regards to GIMP.

Sending emails borne of frustration is like driving yourself home after having too many drinks.

Now on the subject of GIMP stability in general, have you ever tried using FontForge?

FontForge crashes.

A lot.

So much that the program makes an autosave of your open project every 60 seconds or so. Consider yourself lucky if you open a FF project file and DON'T get a message asking whether to restore your previous session. :)

-- Stratadrake strata_ranger@hotmail.com
--------------------
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

On 25/07/12 07:44, wanderer wrote:

Well, as an user who read the list it came to my mind the implementation of auto-save in Gimp. I guess you already had that discussion, but I think that a good software is the one that understand that us, mere mortals human beings, make a lot of mistakes and try in some manner to reduce the range of these mistakes.

Keep in mind that it could not be as trivial as it sounds. Image files processed in GIMP can be really big, and probably the penalty in performance and diskspace of having constant backups is too much. Probably it's better to wait until GIMP gains a non-destructive workflow, where storing copies of the internal GEGL tree seems more feasible than duplicating large files all the time.

Gez

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Richard Gitschlag wrote:

FontForge crashes.

A lot.

So much that the program makes an autosave of your open project every 60 seconds or so. Consider yourself lucky if you open a FF project file and DON'T get a message asking whether to restore your previous session. :)

It's not every day that you get a message from dawn of times so well preserved. Did someone just break into a sealed tomb with FontForge bugreport scrolls from 2003? :)

FF got a lot more stable in last 4-5 years.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:13:10 +0400 From: alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com To: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Update and apology

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: FontForge crashes.

A lot.

So much that the program makes an autosave of your open project every 60 seconds or so. Consider yourself lucky if you open a FF project file and DON'T get a message asking whether to restore your previous session. :)

It's not every day that you get a message from dawn of times so well preserved. Did someone just break into a sealed tomb with FontForge bugreport scrolls from 2003? :)

FF got a lot more stable in last 4-5 years.

Not when you're trying to get it running in a Windows environment (non-native to FF) and don't necessarily have 4-5 years of experience to compare it to. In my experience, most crashes were related not to memory/cpu intensive tasks but simple trivial stuff like navigating its Glyph Outline editor by mouse and click/dragging nodes and handles.

-- Stratadrake strata_ranger@hotmail.com
--------------------
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) wrote:

On 25/07/12 07:44, wanderer wrote:

Well, as an user who read the list it came to my mind the implementation of auto-save in Gimp.

Keep in mind that it could not be as trivial as it sounds. Image files processed in GIMP can be really big, and probably the penalty in performance and diskspace of having constant backups is too much.

+1 to that! I routinely work on files that are >100MB and backing them up takes times... I want it to happen when I want it. Which is why I wrote a backup script http://registry.gimp.org/node/14246 and just tap Alt+F, B when I want to snapshot a backup.

-Rob A>

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Richard Gitschlag wrote:

Not when you're trying to get it running in a Windows environment (non-native to FF) and don't necessarily have 4-5 years of experience to compare it to. In my experience, most crashes were related not to memory/cpu intensive tasks but simple trivial stuff like navigating its Glyph Outline editor by mouse and click/dragging nodes and handles.

Simply put, running FontForge on WIndows is godawful and should be punished by excommunication :)

Speaking of Windows, gimp.org just got updated.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 21:53 +0530, Skand Hurkat wrote:

very good idea.

Not just inkscape, but I believe that Emacs, Vim and other text editors also create a backup file. AFAIK, the backup file is autosaved, and the original is kept as is, in case the user wishes to throw away all changes.

Some editors keep what in effect is the undo stack, i.e. just the operations - loading a saved file can take longer, but you don't use a gigabyte on copying a file you might not need.

So I think with the GEGL graph we might be able to see this in GIMP, without having to save scads of data to disk.

Liam

Yes, you got a point... I usually work with small files, but here and then I find myself with large files too. Having them to auto-save could be really time-wasting. But I got happy with these Gegl tree capabilities, already got excited to see it done :)

Em 25-07-2012 14:06, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) escreveu:

On 25/07/12 07:44, wanderer wrote:

Well, as an user who read the list it came to my mind the implementation of auto-save in Gimp. I guess you already had that discussion, but I think that a good software is the one that understand that us, mere mortals human beings, make a lot of mistakes and try in some manner to reduce the range of these mistakes.

Keep in mind that it could not be as trivial as it sounds. Image files processed in GIMP can be really big, and probably the penalty in performance and diskspace of having constant backups is too much. Probably it's better to wait until GIMP gains a non-destructive workflow, where storing copies of the internal GEGL tree seems more feasible than duplicating large files all the time.

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I'm not sure if that will work either. I mean, non-destructive workflows using GEGL will not work if there is any drawing on canvas, like a layer mask, or painting directly on a layer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that such operations will again require the megabytes that a layer in the xcf file currently demands. Use it on a sufficiently large image (I've worked with Panoramas with around 90 megapixels and multiple layers), and the file size is insane.

I guess that the only option is to tell users to hit Ctrl+S more often. :)

Skand.

On 25-07-2012 22:36, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) wrote:

Probably it's better to wait until GIMP gains a non-destructive workflow, where storing copies of the internal GEGL tree seems more feasible than duplicating large files all the time.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Skand Hurkat wrote:

I'm not sure if that will work either. I mean, non-destructive workflows using GEGL will not work if there is any drawing on canvas, like a layer mask, or painting directly on a layer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that such operations will again require the megabytes that a layer in the xcf file currently demands. Use it on a sufficiently large image (I've worked with Panoramas with around 90 megapixels and multiple layers), and the file size is insane.

I guess that the only option is to tell users to hit Ctrl+S more often. :)

There's no reason other than slacking one couldn't implement dumping stuff on harddrive and restoring in case of a crash.

You'd even be able to start GIMP and reopen all the projects you had around when you last quit.

Space is cheap.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Skand Hurkat wrote:

I'm not sure if that will work either. I mean, non-destructive workflows using GEGL will not work if there is any drawing on canvas, like a layer mask, or painting directly on a layer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that such operations will again require the megabytes that a layer in the xcf file currently demands. Use it on a sufficiently large image (I've worked with Panoramas with around 90 megapixels and multiple layers), and the file size is insane.

I guess that the only option is to tell users to hit Ctrl+S more often. :)

Skand.

Painting can be done non-destructively and I was told the warp plug-in already does.