Since it seems that the GIMP manual license should not be translated, is it possible to put it in a way that the license text could be not po-exported?

TIA

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:24:11AM +0100, Daniel Nylander wrote:

fre 2009-02-13 klockan 00:07 +0100 skrev Marco Ciampa:

Since it seems that the GIMP manual license should not be translated, is it possible to put it in a way that the license text could be not po-exported?

Of course it could be translated (even though only the original English text is legally interpreted).

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html

Daniel

This IMHO pose a problem: linux distro should always include the english manual version just to have the legal version of the licence. Plus if I would like to print it I cannot use the pdf version of the manual just as it is output from the "make pdf" command but I have tu cut & past from the english version just to follow the licence requirements. Remember that a translation is _not_ legally valid.

Am I wrong? Please consider that from the point of view of a translator (mine), the FDL translated on the printed version of the manual is really a *good thing*. If it was possible I will do it immediatly.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:55:04AM +0100, Marco Ciampa wrote:

If it was possible I will do it immediatly.

Sorry for the really bad english :-/

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:37:37AM +0100, Kolbjørn Stuestøl wrote:

Daniel Nylander skreiv:

fre 2009-02-13 klockan 10:55 +0100 skrev Marco Ciampa:

This IMHO pose a problem: linux distro should always include the english manual version just to have the legal version of the licence. Plus if I would like to print it I cannot use the pdf version of the manual just as it is output from the "make pdf" command but I have tu cut & past from the english version just to follow the licence requirements. Remember that a translation is _not_ legally valid.

Am I wrong? Please consider that from the point of view of a translator (mine), the FDL translated on the printed version of the manual is really a *good thing*. If it was possible I will do it immediatly.

A translation of a license or legally binding document does never have the same effect as the original document. But you can always refer to the original text.

This is what we did for the Swedish translation for GPL

"This is an unofficial translation of the GNU General Public License into Swedish. It was not published by the Free Software Foundation, and does not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU GPL -- only the original English text of the GNU GPL does that. However, we hope that this translation will help Swedish speakers understand the GNU GPL better."

http://danielnylander.se/gpl/

Nice!
In my opinion this is the correct way to do it. I agree with you Daniel. Have done something similar in Norwegian. Kolbjørn

Yes I agree too but is it legal?
Please consider the pdf distributed document. Is it legal to distribute it without the real license?

Thanks to all (in particular to Daniel that pointed to me this document http://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html)

I am considering to translate the FDL licence _in_ the manual just appending this:

This is an unofficial translation of the GNU General Public License into language. It was not published by the Free Software Foundation, and does not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU GPL—only the original English text of the GNU GPL does that. However, we hope that this translation will help language speakers understand the GNU GPL better.

to the appendix section. This should suffice (I hope).

To insert the previously discussed license translation, I beleive, the translators should clarify that the translation is _not_ valid. This text should go in a separate paragraph in

src/appendix.fdl.xml

perhaps here: [...]



Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

start of missing...

This is an unofficial translation of the GNU General Public License into . It was not published by the Free Software Foundation, and does not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU GPL -- only the original English text of the GNU GPL does that. However, we hope that this translation will help Swedish speakers understand the GNU GPL better.
end of missing

how make it clear _only_ for translated manuals?

TIA

bye

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:34:12PM +0100, Marco Ciampa wrote:

To insert the previously discussed license translation, I beleive, the translators should clarify that the translation is _not_ valid. This text should go in a separate paragraph in

src/appendix.fdl.xml

perhaps here: [...]



Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

start of missing...

This is an unofficial translation of the GNU General Public License into . It was not published by the Free Software Foundation, and does not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU GPL -- only the original English text of the GNU GPL does that. However, we hope that this translation will help Swedish speakers understand the GNU GPL better.
end of missing

how make it clear _only_ for translated manuals?

I mean...what do you thing about adding that paragraph and how to make it visible/meaningful only to the translated manuals and not the the english reference?

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:49:45PM +0100, Ulf-D. Ehlert wrote:

We could add a - more or less useful - dummy para to the source, e,g,

--- src/appendix/fdl.xml (revision 2752) +++ src/appendix/fdl.xml (working copy) @@ -19,6 +19,13 @@
changing it is not allowed.


+ +
+ Bla bla
+

PREAMBLE

The comment would be passed to the po files:

#. NOTE TO TRANSLATORS: #. Bla bla
#: src/appendix/fdl.xml:26(remark)
msgid "Bla bla"
msgstr ""

Then we had to edit the CSS files, and there it should be possible to suppress the HTML output of this remark depending on the "lang" attribute.

For PDF or ODF manuals we would probably have to edit the XSL stylesheets to remove this remark if language is 'en'.

Mmmm no this should not create work for other (the english) people. I wonder if there is a drawback to simply create an empty paragraph as this:

+ +
+

or using the tags, I do not know which is best here; perhaps but it may create an empty colored frame in the page?

The problem is that this message should go in a different paragraph and it seems that there is not an easy way to create a translators only piece of text that works with PDF and ODF without ugly hacks with stylesheets or such.

(not jocking) thanks for the time you spend in this - not so useful - question

TIA

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:16:57PM +0100, Ulf-D. Ehlert wrote:

Marco Ciampa (Dienstag, 17. Februar 2009, 18:08):

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 01:49:45PM +0100, Ulf-D. Ehlert wrote:

[...]

Then we had to edit the CSS files, and there it should be possible to suppress the HTML output of this remark depending on the "lang" attribute.

For PDF or ODF manuals we would probably have to edit the XSL stylesheets to remove this remark if language is 'en'.

Mmmm no this should not create work for other (the english) people.

I wonder if there is a drawback to simply create an empty paragraph as

this:

+ +
+

Yes, there is: an empty element won't produce a po entry - even just a " " seems not to work.

But why not add a modified version of your proposed para, e,g,

Note that any translations of the GNU General Public License are not published by the Free Software Foundation, and do not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU GPL -- only the original English text of the GNU GPL does that. (The GIMP Documentation Team)

Ok, you are the expert, can you -please- insert a template where I can include the text? I do not want to make mistakes...

Now I have a text like this (one single para) not really cool:

Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA. Chiunque può copiare e distribuire copie letterali di questo documento di licenza; non è tuttavia permesso modificarlo. --- This is an unofficial translation of the GNU Free Documentatio License into italian. It was not published by the Free Software Foundation, and does not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU FDL—only the original English text of the GNU FDL does that. However, we hope that this translation will help language speakers understand the GNU FDL better. --- Questa è una traduzione non ufficiale della GNU Free Documentation License in italiano. Non è una pubblicazione della Free Software Foundation, e non ha validità legale per i termini di distribuzione della documentazione che usa la GNU FDL; solo il testo originale inglese della GNU FDL ha tale validità. Comunque, speriamo che questa traduzione aiuti chi parla italiano a comprendere meglio la GNU FDL.

this should go into 2 or 3 different paras [...]

I didn't try anything with PDF and ODF, but using e.g. the above text we wouldn't need to remove anything, and editing the stylesheets is no "ugly hack", it's just customizing.

I understand and think that you are right.