On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 10:30:02PM -0800, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

I have been looking for but I could not find the way to work with FRAMES (like Macromedia Fireworks).

Where is the "frames" window?

Could anyone please give me explanation about?

it is better to give the details of what you are looking for to this list. the software you are talking about does not work on all operating systems (that i know of).

what exactly does "frames" window mean when you want to see this in gimp?

carol

Perhaps you're referring to animation frames?

I at least know that in GIMP, frames of an animated gif are represented by layers,
and saving a gif, the layers can be made into frames by simply selecting animation
in the save dialogue (when you click to save a gif, you are presented the options. It can
be kind of confusing for people who are used to setting all those options BEFORE saving.)

Hope that helps

~Jeremy

On 11/4/05, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

I have been looking for but I could not find the way to work with FRAMES (like Macromedia Fireworks).

Where is the "frames" window?

Could anyone please give me explanation about?

Thank you very much. (I am Newbie)

On 11/4/05, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

I have been looking for but I could not find the way to work with FRAMES (like Macromedia Fireworks).

Where is the "frames" window?

Could anyone please give me explanation about?

I believe that for all intents and purposes, there is no frames window in GIMP. "Frames" are represented as layers in GIF images (for web, in GIF export) and as separate files (for AVI, in Gimp Animation Package, a.k.a GAP). To get the kind of effects created by Macromedia Fireworks, you'd need to create multiple still images and sew them together as a GIF, AVI, or by using JavaScript in your web page - a long process.

Macromedia Fireworks uses something called "Vector" based Graphics provided by Macromedia's proprietary Flash technology/file format, and GIMP uses "Raster" based graphics which are not so proprietary and come in various file formats. The two are different, yield different results, and work differently. While GIMP is good at editing various types of "raster" images for the web, it doesn't do many of the features of Macromedia Fireworks that appear to be touted on its website.

[Vector images use points and "connect the dots" when they display on your computer and contain instructions like "put this text here" and "fill this shape with this colour", whereas Raster images store the colour in a grid of dots that are put next to each other to look like an image.]

You might find it easier to describe the effect you wish to get, and maybe we can show you a different way of achieving it with the GIMP.

-- ~Mike
- Just my two cents
- No man is an island, and no man is unable.

On 11/6/05, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

Thanks for your response. I get to understand that I wil need to use JavaScript.

In my opinion this should be easier in GIMP in the future.

GIMP isn't designed for this purpose, and plenty of code is already available for this purpose. Why reinvent the wheel?

Frankly, If memory serves me right, very little code in GIMP is related to web development, regardless of whether or not GIMP is used in it.

If someone is willing to contribute the code, then certainly I see no reason why it will not be looked at. However, there are bigger, and in some people's opinions, more important, things that are prerequisites before such things will be considered. Existing coders are overwhelmed with SIOD, maintenance, GEGL, and simply planning 16-bit-per-channel support, among other things, many major features could be years away as it stands.

If you feel this is important, you are free to purchase Macromedia Fireworks and use that instead.

You can also downgrade to GIMP 1.x and use existing plugins (as they are not forward compatible and many may or may not be helpful for your purpose) and scripts (there are many which use commands which are deprecated in newer versions).

That said, you are entitled to your opinion, and if someone looks at it and decides to include such a thing, I don't believe there is anything wrong with that.

It may also be worth looking at W3C (World Wide Web Consortium, w3.org) standards, as, if I remember correctly, they discourage such things in modern web content. [It's not very cross platform or accessability-friendly, for example -- especially if it's done in a flash plug-in, as Macromedia Fireworks does it.]

Of course, it all depends on your target audience.

--- michael chang wrote:

On 11/4/05, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

I have been looking for but I could not find the

way

to work with FRAMES (like Macromedia Fireworks).

Where is the "frames" window?

Could anyone please give me explanation about?

I believe that for all intents and purposes, there is no frames window
in GIMP. "Frames" are represented as layers in GIF images (for web,
in GIF export) and as separate files (for AVI, in Gimp Animation
Package, a.k.a GAP). To get the kind of effects created by Macromedia
Fireworks, you'd need to create multiple still images and sew them
together as a GIF, AVI, or by using JavaScript in your web page - a
long process.

Macromedia Fireworks uses something called "Vector" based Graphics
provided by Macromedia's proprietary Flash technology/file format, and
GIMP uses "Raster" based graphics which are not so proprietary and
come in various file formats. The two are different, yield different
results, and work differently. While GIMP is good at editing various
types of "raster" images for the web, it doesn't do many of the
features of Macromedia Fireworks that appear to be touted on its
website.

[Vector images use points and "connect the dots" when they display on
your computer and contain instructions like "put this text here" and
"fill this shape with this colour", whereas Raster images store the
colour in a grid of dots that are put next to each other to look like
an image.]

You might find it easier to describe the effect you wish to get, and
maybe we can show you a different way of achieving it with the GIMP.

--
~Mike
- Just my two cents
- No man is an island, and no man is unable.

--
~Mike
- Just my two cents
- No man is an island, and no man is unable.

michael chang wrote:

Macromedia Fireworks uses something called "Vector" based Graphics provided by Macromedia's proprietary Flash technology/file format, and GIMP uses "Raster" based graphics which are not so proprietary and come in various file formats. The two are different, yield different results, and work differently.

Just for the record, there is absolutely nothing proprietary about vector graphics in general. It is true that there are relatively few open file formats for vector graphics, or open source programs to work with them, but they do exist: major file formats include EPS (Encapsulated PostScript) and SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics); vector drawing applications include Inkscape (rapidly becoming quite good), Sodipodi, and the venerable XFig.

BTW, SVG offers many of the animation capabilities of Flash. It isn't supported in all browsers yet--nor, I think, completely supported in any browser, but it is on its way.

Sorry to get off-topic. I'll let everyone get back to the GIMP now.

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 08:03:47AM -0800, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

Excuse me, but no flash plugin is needed, in that kind of applications, you export three elements: Images, JavaScript, and a HTML Table. You do not need a Flash Plugin to have it in your browser.

this is part of the problem when you cite a specific software as an example of what you would like to see and not what you would like to see.

can you say exactly what it is that you would like to see gimp be ableto attempt?

carol

http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html

On 11/7/05, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

Excuse me, but no flash plugin is needed, in that kind of applications, you export three elements: Images, JavaScript, and a HTML Table. You do not need a Flash Plugin to have it in your browser.

True, but I believe Macromedia products export a flash swf file for this, regardless of whether it is necessary to achieve the effect.

Images are discouraged by W3.org? Dont think so. (just is needed to use the ALT tab)

I believe it was rollover javascript... plus it violates some "niceness" design standards. Ironically, after searching the site, I can't find the document I had looked at earlier, and I probably must have misinterpreted something anyways. In any case, it doesn't matter, it's not a big deal. (Besides, rollover Javascript is so common now, I suppose.)

I understand GIMP is not for this now, but why not?, would be very useful. I will see if I can contribute in the future about.

If you contribute something of this sort, I'm quite sure others who run into your problem in the future will be very greatful. I was just trying to explain why it wasn't already there, and why it might be a while before someone else writes such a tool (at least for doing it from within GIMP).

--
~Mike
- Just my two cents
- No man is an island, and no man is unable.

Moin.

if it is rollover javascript effects, the GIMP now can do it - GIMP CVS HEAD at least , with Gimp-Python installed, look for the "py-slice" plugin.

JS
->

On Monday 07 November 2005 09:12 pm, michael chang wrote:

On 11/7/05, Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

Excuse me, but no flash plugin is needed, in that kind of applications, you export three elements: Images, JavaScript, and a HTML Table. You do not need a Flash Plugin to have it in your browser.

True, but I believe Macromedia products export a flash swf file for this, regardless of whether it is necessary to achieve the effect.

Images are discouraged by W3.org? Dont think so. (just is needed to use the ALT tab)

I believe it was rollover javascript... plus it violates some "niceness" design standards. Ironically, after searching the site, I can't find the document I had looked at earlier, and I probably must have misinterpreted something anyways. In any case, it doesn't matter, it's not a big deal. (Besides, rollover Javascript is so common now, I suppose.)

I understand GIMP is not for this now, but why not?, would be very useful. I will see if I can contribute in the future about.

If you contribute something of this sort, I'm quite sure others who run into your problem in the future will be very greatful. I was just trying to explain why it wasn't already there, and why it might be a while before someone else writes such a tool (at least for doing it from within GIMP).

-- ~Mike
- Just my two cents
- No man is an island, and no man is unable.

Ernesto Orozco Coulson wrote:

Excuse me, but no flash plugin is needed, in that kind of applications, you export three elements: Images, JavaScript, and a HTML Table. You do not need a Flash Plugin to have it in your browser.

Images are discouraged by W3.org?

Yes, if they are used to display text. There is no way images can be translated for blind people surfing.

And use of tables to position the elements on a page is definitely discouraged by W3C. CSS attributes should be used instead.

Oh, and by the way, since you have not yet answered to the people who asked you waht you mean by "frame", I am allowed to interpret it as html frame element. Frames has been discouraged by W3C for many many years (probably since around 1997, HTML4 strict having no frames).

Dont think so. (just is needed to use the ALT tab)

I understand GIMP is not for this now, but why not?

Because "use the right tool for the job" is an important concept. For the same reason, partition magic or windows media player (in *nix wolrd, lets say Kdevelop and totem) are not for writing web pages, and asking "why not" would not make much sense.

would be very useful. I will see if I can contribute in the future about.

Have a look at perlotine, webotine, pyslice, split on guide. They could be good starts, and you can choose what language you want. There is also gimp-sharp slice tool which could be handy.

regards,

Olivier