Is this the same as the Ctrl+W command, or are you speaking of something different?

Madeleine

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Terrell Kelley wrote:

When you changed the behavior of the close button in single window mode, you made it where there is no longer an easy way to close the view instead of the entire application. My suggestion is that you add a close view button to the menu bar, being an X that is on the far right side.

Ordinarily I would think this was a feature request and wouldn't have bothered for 2.8, but I've seen you do a lot of other things I would have thought would count as feature requests. And the problem IS a result of something you changed in a point release (2.8.4, I believe). So I'd really appreciate a 2.8 release with a close view button in single window mode.

Either that, or at least an option to always show tabs, even if you only have one view open. That would also give me a close button. _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
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From: animatrix1490@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 05:47:09 -0600 CC: gimp-user-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Close buttons and Single Window mode

Is this the same as the Ctrl+W command, or are you speaking of something different?

Madeleine

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Terrell Kelley wrote:

When you changed the behavior of the close button in single window mode, you made it where there is no longer an easy way to close the view instead of the entire application. My suggestion is that you add a close view button to the menu bar, being an X that is on the far right side.

Ordinarily I would think this was a feature request and wouldn't have bothered for 2.8, but I've seen you do a lot of other things I would have thought would count as feature requests. And the problem IS a result of something you changed in a point release (2.8.4, I believe). So I'd really appreciate a 2.8 release with a close view button in single window mode.

Either that, or at least an option to always show tabs, even if you only have one view open. That would also give me a close button. _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

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I noticed this recently, too, that in SWM when you hit the Close button on the application window it issues a Quit command (Ctrl+Q) when previously it issued a Close (Ctrl+W) command.

In some cases this is useful behavior but in others it is not. :(

Related: Windows GIMP needs to have Ctrl+F4 mapped as a keyboard shortcut for Close Window. It's a very common Windows shortcut for closing a 'child' window (tab, etc.).

-- Stratadrake strata_ranger@hotmail.com
--------------------
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

On Tue, 2013-12-10 at 10:56 -0800, Richard wrote:

I noticed this recently, too, that in SWM when you hit the Close button on the application window it issues a Quit command (Ctrl+Q) when previously it issued a Close (Ctrl+W) command.

In some cases this is useful behavior but in others it is not. :(

In particular it's now harder to close the last image without quitting gimp - you have to remember to use File->close, not click on the [x].

I think of the current SWM as being an experiment with some major flaws.

E.g. you can't have multiple views of the same image displayed at the same time, a significant loss in functionality especially when doing colour proofing.

There are some oddities - e.g. after exporting as jpeg, gimp goes back to the wrong image in the case that your image has layers or transparency and you enabled image preview in the jpeg export dialogue - and confusion between close view and close image and close application.

For me the ability to have the toolbox docked to the image is a major win.

Because I tend to have two or three projects active at the same time, I'd really like to have two or three separate gimp windows, each with their own current directory for save/import/export, but running multiple instances of gimp seems to mean things like the xsane plugin (can only have one active) and the recent image folder become problematic.

This is all a wordy way of saying I think SWM needs a bit of a rethink, both in the implementation and in the actual spec. The implementation was very incomplete but gave us enough practical experience to see some areas where the spec could be improved upon and made even better :)

Introducing the concept of a Project might be a lot of work, but has the potential to clear up a lot of save/export confusion too - a project being a collection of zero or more images, with associated settings, resources, preferences. But I don't know that's where GIMP wants to go :-)

In the short term, reverting the change on the close button might be nice.

Liam

Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

Hi,

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Richard wrote:

From: animatrix1490@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 05:47:09 -0600 CC: gimp-user-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Close buttons and Single Window mode

Is this the same as the Ctrl+W command, or are you speaking of something different?

Madeleine

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Terrell Kelley wrote:

When you changed the behavior of the close button in single window mode, you made it where there is no longer an easy way to close the view instead of the entire application. My suggestion is that you add a close view button to the menu bar, being an X that is on the far right side.

Ordinarily I would think this was a feature request and wouldn't have bothered for 2.8, but I've seen you do a lot of other things I would have thought would count as feature requests. And the problem IS a result of something you changed in a point release (2.8.4, I believe). So I'd really appreciate a 2.8 release with a close view button in single window mode.

Either that, or at least an option to always show tabs, even if you only have one view open. That would also give me a close button. _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

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I noticed this recently, too, that in SWM when you hit the Close button on the application window it issues a Quit command (Ctrl+Q) when previously it issued a Close (Ctrl+W) command.

Yes we changed it, because this was not consistent behavior. When you click on a window titlebar's X, the meaning is that the user want to close the whole window, not just a tab in it. This is a consistent meaning accross all window managers and OSes. Having it perform various tasks depending on the content was a bug of this single window mode. And since in single window mode, you have only 1 window, closing this window means quitting the program. You still have individual X on tabs to close individual images.

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Terrell Kelley wrote:

Either that, or at least an option to always show tabs, even if you only have one view open. That would also give me a close button.

Well in GIMP 2.10, you'll have this. Note though that you can already close the last tab in GIMP 2.8 with ctrl-w, or "File > Close View" menu item if you really want to do it with the mouse.

In some cases this is useful behavior but in others it is not. :(

Related: Windows GIMP needs to have Ctrl+F4 mapped as a keyboard shortcut for Close Window. It's a very common Windows shortcut for closing a 'child' window (tab, etc.).

I have checked if it was more of a better default shortcut, maybe on some platforms. I know that on linux ctrl-w is a very common default for closing a single tab or child window. Well according to this list of default shortcuts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts It appears that even though ctrl-f4 is sometimes a valid alternative, ctrl-w is always one too, at least on Windows and Linux (on OSX, that's cmd-w). So I'd say we are good there. If you definitely prefer ctrl-f4 to ctrl-w, well you can easily change this shortcut in "Edit > Keyboard Shortcuts". But our default does seem as legit as ctrl-f4, if not more.

Have fun!

Jehan

-- Stratadrake
strata_ranger@hotmail.com
--------------------
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

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Hi,

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Liam R E Quin wrote:

On Tue, 2013-12-10 at 10:56 -0800, Richard wrote:

I noticed this recently, too, that in SWM when you hit the Close button on the application window it issues a Quit command (Ctrl+Q) when previously it issued a Close (Ctrl+W) command.

In some cases this is useful behavior but in others it is not. :(

In particular it's now harder to close the last image without quitting gimp - you have to remember to use File->close, not click on the [x].

I think of the current SWM as being an experiment with some major flaws.

Well, maybe that's why it is still not the default in GIMP. The default is still the good old Multi-Window mode legacy. :-)

E.g. you can't have multiple views of the same image displayed at the same time, a significant loss in functionality especially when doing colour proofing.

Yes, this is a known feature request. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=622625 Our main UI designer has some idea about this, what he calls "polaroid" in this blog post:
http://blog.mmiworks.net/2009/09/gimp-single-mode.html

There are some oddities - e.g. after exporting as jpeg, gimp goes back to the wrong image in the case that your image has layers or transparency and you enabled image preview in the jpeg export dialogue - and confusion between close view and close image and close application.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that in some cases, after an export, the foreground image is not the one which was just exported but another one? If so, that looks like a bug, and I would advise to open a bug report with accurate reproduction steps (you seem to have one).

For me the ability to have the toolbox docked to the image is a major win.

Because I tend to have two or three projects active at the same time, I'd really like to have two or three separate gimp windows, each with their own current directory for save/import/export, but running multiple instances of gimp seems to mean things like the xsane plugin (can only have one active) and the recent image folder become problematic.

I think there must be a feature request somewhere about something like this too. I agree that would be nice.

This is all a wordy way of saying I think SWM needs a bit of a rethink, both in the implementation and in the actual spec. The implementation was very incomplete but gave us enough practical experience to see some areas where the spec could be improved upon and made even better :)

There is definitely place for improvement. Now what we need is more developers. :-)

Introducing the concept of a Project might be a lot of work, but has the potential to clear up a lot of save/export confusion too - a project being a collection of zero or more images, with associated settings, resources, preferences. But I don't know that's where GIMP wants to go :-)

I never heard of such an idea, but I don't know the full list of ideas that came in GIMP history. If this idea has been raised, maybe you can find it on the brainstorm blog: http://gimp-brainstorm.blogspot.co.nz/ Or the GUI wiki: http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign

They were not very active lately, but they may come to be again.

In the short term, reverting the change on the close button might be nice.

As explained in my previous email, I doubt we would change it. At least, I definitely won't be the one to push such a change. The "close" button (usually a small cross) has a specific meaning, which is the same accross absolutely all platforms, and the exact reason why you even call it *close* button: it is meant to close a window (optionally after intermediary steps, like asking you if you want to save your image or anything else which may risk data loss, which is application-specific).

The fact that it was only and "sometimes" closing a single tab before was a bug of the very recent single window mode, even though users may have gotten used to it while it existed. This is inconsistent behavior, and this is not because users get used to bugs that they should suddenly become features. This is my opinion on the matter.

Regards,

Jehan

Liam

--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

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