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Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

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Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness PSCS5ImagerConvert 29 Aug 21:26
  Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Michael Natterer 30 Aug 07:16
   Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Burnie West 30 Aug 07:58
    Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Michael Natterer 30 Aug 10:22
     Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Liam R E Quin 30 Aug 18:25
      Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Alexandre Prokoudine 30 Aug 19:28
       Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Ofnuts 30 Aug 20:48
        Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Richard Gitschlag 30 Aug 22:56
         Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness yahvuu 31 Aug 09:53
          Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Ofnuts 31 Aug 10:21
           Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness yahvuu 31 Aug 11:13
            Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Dominik Tabisz 31 Aug 13:28
            Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Ofnuts 31 Aug 16:50
             Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness PSCS5ImagerConvert 01 Sep 15:32
              Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Alexandre Prokoudine 01 Sep 20:03
              Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Gary Aitken 01 Sep 20:35
       Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Brendan Scott 31 Aug 02:11
   Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Michael Schumacher 30 Aug 13:39
  Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Kevin Payne 30 Aug 09:54
  Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness Ofnuts 30 Aug 13:12
2013-08-29 21:26:15 UTC (about 11 years ago)
postings
2

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity I. Would-be Satisfied User Question & II. System Feature Access Change Request | Recommendation, for GIMP SMEs and Online Enthusiasts' Forum: Maddening | Urgent Help Request: I. Apparent is no navigational work-around for a lost, deleted (or simply no included/provided) Layer Opacity access feature ... at least in my version of GIMP v. 2.8.6; ie, I cannot locate among the application's Primary tabs any tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal, to a much desired {ASIDE 1 of 2: albeit often one such Layer Opacity tool is readily referenced in several of the extant online tutorials .... as a "given", and it is, too, often depicted, replete with a supporting screenshot, no less: so the feature must exist .... perhaps commanded by hidden access privilege(s) somehow, somewhere within GIMP ... for some users, at least ;-)}: GIMP | GUI & Other Layer Opacity Access Priority Change Recommendations: Primary Layer tab's, anticipated, Layer Opacity tool/option tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal or the like access point(s) is not found. Its (such a Layer Opacity tool/option's form-factor would be manifest typically as an Opacity Glider aka a selectable |adjustable progress bar; nor, for that matter, is there evidence of any semblance of a percentage (%) transparency scroll bar nor an expectable like prompt data-entry field, of any description, which conceivably would execute a "layer's desired fade user-specification (opacity)" aka a amiss is any Layer Opacity adjustment tool (if such does in fact already exist) access point(s), whatsoever. Despite CIRCULAR narratives communicated on this, GIMP's official site, and among the posts of those others created by or in service to | contributed to by GIMP enthusiasts, there exists no CLEAR nor MEANINGFUL ADDRESS as to how one MAKES APPARENT aka would ACCESS ie, access point(s) for Layer Opacity: neither by mouse clicking nor by eg, shortcut keys entry navigation/specification, for such a Layer Opacity tool access point(s). II. Again, when no such tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal can be readily found to exist among one -- and ideally in more than one -- access point and by more than one navigational path -- GIMP's version (again, v. 2.8.6) is rendered effectively useless for layered imagery work; user satisfaction spirals downward rapidly after a work-around search -- proves counter-intuitive ie, poor anticipatory GUI provisioning, or within the application ie, its Help and/or its User Guide index, and/or among online forums -- exceeds 5, 10, 30, 60, 120 minutes. FIASCO is what that scenario spells: Why could GIMP's SMEs have failed on such an imperative SDLC GUI, indexing and easy-access multi-cross-referencing point(s) objective for this version's release? And what, if any, work-around, for Layer Opacity tool access point(s) within the application, for selection of a layer(s) desired opacity display aka fade level, would be advised, if, in fact, said does exist as a viable tool (just not easily nor readily accessed) within GIMP 2.8.6? Why the Layer Opacity access point(s) convolution? Welcomed would be directions as to any navigation(al) path for said Layer Opacity tool access point(s). NONE is (access point) | are (access points) currently apparent under GIMP's 2.8.6 banner | top-level ribbon | panel of Primary Tabs, nor is such evident within its sub-tabs nor User Guide's Index nor tutorials nor blogosphere. {ASIDE 2 of 2: in fact, Layer Opacity should appear in, so addressed, in both the very beginning of the User Guide, and then latter in the specific Layers section .... but in a more detailed explication, within the latter] nor those tabs' secondary tabs, nor, for that matter under any tertiary-level tabs. Primary Tabs, namely, Tools, Layer, View nor any their "cross-linked sub-tabs" to other tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal | option(s) | location(s) avails a sort of Layer Opacity Adjustment tool, whatsoever.} Lack of any easy-access point(s) aka obscure Layer Opacity (eg, a % glider) tool(s) blemishes one's entire would-be GIMP user-experience. Address of said shortcomings is URGENTLY needed, as recommended. Again the question persists: "Is there a reset button (virtual) and/or Command Key Combo and/or some other keystroke Shortcut Key combo, for immediate access point(s) for Layer Opacity specification? If so, kindly direct me as to its access procedure: again, I am attempting to use GIMP v. 2.8.6. I recall vividly, from years ago, that upon my initial GIMP v. 2.6 trial, in fact, readily apparent were an array of access points | paths for/to GIMP's Layer Opacity tool | dialogue field(s). Among that tool's access options was a sub-tab option under Primary Layer Tab, which could also be accessed from Tools Tab's sub-tabs, as well as comforting was the fact that said automatically appeared as an option palette in Toolbox's adjustable-size tool-box | "floating icon" column. Several online forum contributors mention that | similar functionality for v 2.6. Where and how do I access | activate Layer Opacity tool: either % glider and/or keystroke entry of desired layer % fade render; unable to find said. One would think that GIMP management/development/administrative SMEs OUGHT TO seriously consider my GUI Change Requests, and answer my queries, SINCE Layer Opacity is a PRIMARY aka FUNDAMENTAL image manipulation requisite ... and OBSCURE ACCESS POINT(s) [anything other than, at least, immediate sub-tab access from the Primary Layer Tab and the Tools Tab seems counter-intuitive, poor GUI and an utterly ridiculous would-be user nuisance] simply do not make the grade with would-be user communities. Additionally, the '"clouded Layer Option access point(s)", detailed above, pervades all current relevant online instruction content; that would-be educational GIMP instructional content, for Layer Opacity access point(s) navigation is amiss; that dearth of plain language information/directions bodes dark days for GIMP's prospects at garnering new users or retaining user allegiance. Currently, online (anywhere) goes wanting for a clear, concise and expedient answer | directive ........... such goes begging; and, that multi-faceted matter bespeaks serious, if not utterly fatal GIMP application, GUI and User Guide design flaws. Shortcomings of that significance likely silently and unrelentingly go unaddressed, overlooked and/or "lightly dismissed", which, unwittingly, turns off legions of would-be eager converts to GIMP from other imaging software. Do what you can to remedy those flaws, and kindly advise, ASAP. Thank you for your replies to my Layer Opacity access point(s) information request."

Michael Natterer
2013-08-30 07:16:36 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

TL;DR

Can you please say the same again, in a few readable sentences?

What is broken/missing?

On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 23:26 +0200, PSCS5ImagerConvert wrote:

GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity I. Would-be Satisfied User Question & II. System Feature Access Change Request | Recommendation, for GIMP SMEs and Online Enthusiasts' Forum:
Maddening | Urgent Help Request: I. Apparent is no navigational work-around for a lost, deleted (or simply no included/provided) Layer Opacity access feature ... at least in my version of GIMP v. 2.8.6; ie, I cannot locate among the application's Primary tabs any tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal, to a much desired {ASIDE 1 of 2: albeit often one such Layer Opacity tool is readily referenced in several of the extant online tutorials .... as a "given", and it is, too, often depicted, replete with a supporting screenshot, no less: so the feature must exist .... perhaps commanded by hidden access privilege(s) somehow, somewhere within GIMP ... for some users, at least ;-)}: GIMP | GUI & Other Layer Opacity Access Priority Change Recommendations: Primary Layer tab's, anticipated, Layer Opacity tool/option tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal or the like access point(s) is not found.
Its (such a Layer Opacity tool/option's form-factor would be manifest typically as an Opacity Glider aka a selectable |adjustable progress bar; nor, for that matter, is there evidence of any semblance of a percentage (%) transparency scroll bar nor an expectable like prompt data-entry field, of any description, which conceivably would execute a "layer's desired fade user-specification (opacity)" aka a amiss is any Layer Opacity adjustment tool (if such does in fact already exist) access point(s), whatsoever. Despite CIRCULAR narratives communicated on this, GIMP's official site, and among the posts of those others created by or in service to | contributed to by GIMP enthusiasts, there exists no CLEAR nor MEANINGFUL ADDRESS as to how one MAKES APPARENT aka would ACCESS ie, access point(s) for Layer Opacity: neither by mouse clicking nor by eg, shortcut keys entry navigation/specification, for such a Layer Opacity tool access point(s). II. Again, when no such tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal can be readily found to exist among one -- and ideally in more than one -- access point and by more than one navigational path -- GIMP's version (again, v. 2.8.6) is rendered effectively useless for layered imagery work; user satisfaction spirals downward rapidly after a work-around search -- proves counter-intuitive ie, poor anticipatory GUI provisioning, or within the application ie, its Help and/or its User Guide index, and/or among online forums -- exceeds 5, 10, 30, 60, 120 minutes. FIASCO is what that scenario spells: Why could GIMP's SMEs have failed on such an imperative SDLC GUI, indexing and easy-access multi-cross-referencing point(s) objective for this version's release? And what, if any, work-around, for Layer Opacity tool access point(s) within the application, for selection of a layer(s) desired opacity display aka fade level, would be advised, if, in fact, said does exist as a viable tool (just not easily nor readily accessed) within GIMP 2.8.6? Why the Layer Opacity access point(s) convolution?
Welcomed would be directions as to any navigation(al) path for said Layer Opacity tool access point(s). NONE is (access point) | are (access points) currently apparent under GIMP's 2.8.6 banner | top-level ribbon | panel of Primary Tabs, nor is such evident within its sub-tabs nor User Guide's Index nor tutorials nor blogosphere.
{ASIDE 2 of 2: in fact, Layer Opacity should appear in, so addressed, in both the very beginning of the User Guide, and then latter in the specific Layers section .... but in a more detailed explication, within the latter] nor those tabs' secondary tabs, nor, for that matter under any tertiary-level tabs. Primary Tabs, namely, Tools, Layer, View nor any their "cross-linked sub-tabs" to other tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal | option(s) | location(s) avails a sort of Layer Opacity Adjustment tool, whatsoever.}
Lack of any easy-access point(s) aka obscure Layer Opacity (eg, a % glider) tool(s) blemishes one's entire would-be GIMP user-experience. Address of said shortcomings is URGENTLY needed, as recommended. Again the question persists: "Is there a reset button (virtual) and/or Command Key Combo and/or some other keystroke Shortcut Key combo, for immediate access point(s) for Layer Opacity specification? If so, kindly direct me as to its access procedure: again, I am attempting to use GIMP v. 2.8.6.
I recall vividly, from years ago, that upon my initial GIMP v. 2.6 trial, in fact, readily apparent were an array of access points | paths for/to GIMP's Layer Opacity tool | dialogue field(s). Among that tool's access options was a sub-tab option under Primary Layer Tab, which could also be accessed from Tools Tab's sub-tabs, as well as comforting was the fact that said automatically appeared as an option palette in Toolbox's adjustable-size tool-box | "floating icon" column. Several online forum contributors mention that | similar functionality for v 2.6.
Where and how do I access | activate Layer Opacity tool: either % glider and/or keystroke entry of desired layer % fade render; unable to find said. One would think that GIMP management/development/administrative SMEs OUGHT TO seriously consider my GUI Change Requests, and answer my queries, SINCE Layer Opacity is a PRIMARY aka FUNDAMENTAL image manipulation requisite ... and OBSCURE ACCESS POINT(s) [anything other than, at least, immediate sub-tab access from the Primary Layer Tab and the Tools Tab seems counter-intuitive, poor GUI and an utterly ridiculous would-be user nuisance] simply do not make the grade with would-be user communities.
Additionally, the '"clouded Layer Option access point(s)", detailed above, pervades all current relevant online instruction content; that would-be educational GIMP instructional content, for Layer Opacity access point(s) navigation is amiss; that dearth of plain language information/directions bodes dark days for GIMP's prospects at garnering new users or retaining user allegiance.
Currently, online (anywhere) goes wanting for a clear, concise and expedient answer | directive ........... such goes begging; and, that multi-faceted matter bespeaks serious, if not utterly fatal GIMP application, GUI and User Guide design flaws. Shortcomings of that significance likely silently and unrelentingly go unaddressed, overlooked and/or "lightly dismissed", which, unwittingly, turns off legions of would-be eager converts to GIMP from other imaging software.
Do what you can to remedy those flaws, and kindly advise, ASAP. Thank you for your replies to my Layer Opacity access point(s) information request."

Burnie West
2013-08-30 07:58:47 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On 08/30/2013 12:16 AM, Michael Natterer wrote:

TL;DR

Can you please say the same again, in a few readable sentences?

What is broken/missing?

On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 23:26 +0200, PSCS5ImagerConvert wrote:

GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity

I think the OP is concerned because the opacity slider does not affect the active layer.

I tried to adjust opacity of a filled layer by changing the slider but could never manage to see anything of the layer below. Seems like I could before 2.8.6 but I don't use it much so I don't recall well.

Bucket fill of a region works reasonably; that's what I've used more often.

Kevin Payne
2013-08-30 09:54:20 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

I think I've deciphered your request and please correct me if I'm wrong (preferably in a concise way), but you are saying that you don't have an Opacity slider in your Layers dialog? http://docs.gimp.org/2.8/en/gimp-dialogs-structure.html#gimp-layer-dialog

You've met one requirement for requesting help by specifying the version of GIMP that you are using, but have failed to meet the requirement to inform us of the operating system that you are using. Please do so as it may be a significant factor in finding the remedy for your problem.

Regards

Kevin

Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:26:15 +0200 From: forums@gimpusers.com
To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org
CC: team@gimpusers.com
Subject: [Gimp-user] Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity I. Would-be Satisfied User Question & II. System Feature Access Change Request | Recommendation, for GIMP SMEs and Online Enthusiasts' Forum:
Maddening | Urgent Help Request: I. Apparent is no navigational work-around for a lost, deleted (or simply no

PSCS5ImagerConvert (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

Michael Natterer
2013-08-30 10:22:15 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 00:58 -0700, Burnie West wrote:

On 08/30/2013 12:16 AM, Michael Natterer wrote:

TL;DR

Can you please say the same again, in a few readable sentences?

What is broken/missing?

On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 23:26 +0200, PSCS5ImagerConvert wrote:

GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity

I think the OP is concerned because the opacity slider does not affect the active layer.

I tried to adjust opacity of a filled layer by changing the slider but could never manage to see anything of the layer below. Seems like I could before 2.8.6 but I don't use it much so I don't recall well.

Seem to work fine here, and I think we would have heard it already if such an important control was broken. I really don't know what this is about.

--Mitch

Ofnuts
2013-08-30 13:12:28 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On 08/29/2013 11:26 PM, PSCS5ImagerConvert wrote:

GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity
I. Would-be Satisfied User Question
&
II. System Feature Access Change Request | Recommendation, for GIMP SMEs and Online Enthusiasts' Forum:
Maddening | Urgent Help Request:

[ ... snippage ... ]

TL;DR...

Are you taking about this? http://i.imgur.com/ECJVe4q.png

Michael Schumacher
2013-08-30 13:39:25 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

Gesendet: Freitag, 30. August 2013 um 09:16 Uhr Von: "Michael Natterer"

TL;DR

Can you please say the same again, in a few readable sentences?

For the records:

I've discarded that mail as a failed spam attempt - lots of copypasted text with enough keywords mixed in to make it seem on-topic :)

Regards,
Michael
Liam R E Quin
2013-08-30 18:25:24 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 12:22 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote:

I think the OP is concerned because the opacity slider does not affect the active layer.

It does.

The UI would be massively clearer if the opacity slider was moved down under the other layer-specific controls and maybe under the list of layers, or under the actual layer name - it's not obvious today that the opacity slider applies to the layer selected in the list beneath it.

That's my best guess at why someone might not find it - I've heard people having difficulty with that before.

Liam

Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml
Alexandre Prokoudine
2013-08-30 19:28:33 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:25 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote:

On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 12:22 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote:

I think the OP is concerned because the opacity slider does not affect the active layer.

It does.

The UI would be massively clearer if the opacity slider was moved down under the other layer-specific controls and maybe under the list of layers, or under the actual layer name - it's not obvious today that the opacity slider applies to the layer selected in the list beneath it.

IMO, this is worth thinking about. Right now it's not possible to have an overlook of each layer's opacity. OTOH, one might argue a visible slider for each layer would clutter UI.

Alexandre

Ofnuts
2013-08-30 20:48:39 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On 08/30/2013 09:28 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

IMO, this is worth thinking about. Right now it's not possible to have an overlook of each layer's opacity. OTOH, one might argue a visible slider for each layer would clutter UI.

Next these pesky users will also want to know the blend mode and locks for that layer or group... could all this be displayed when hovering the pointer over the layer thumbnail? (IMHO displaying and setting can be two distinct things, the current setup is consistent with the convention that changes only apply to the active layer)

Richard Gitschlag
2013-08-30 22:56:26 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:48:39 +0200 From: ofnuts@laposte.net
To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

Next these pesky users will also want to know the blend mode and locks for that layer or group... could all this be displayed when hovering the pointer over the layer thumbnail?

That sounds like a decent idea: Hover the mouse over a layer and it will pop up a tooltip identifying the two things you can't tell from a glance - the layer's blending mode and opacity.

-- Stratadrake strata_ranger@hotmail.com
--------------------
Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth.

Brendan Scott
2013-08-31 02:11:45 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On 08/31/2013 05:28 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 10:25 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote:

On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 12:22 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote:

I think the OP is concerned because the opacity slider does not affect the active layer.

It does.

The UI would be massively clearer if the opacity slider was moved down under the other layer-specific controls and maybe under the list of layers, or under the actual layer name - it's not obvious today that the opacity slider applies to the layer selected in the list beneath it.

IMO, this is worth thinking about. Right now it's not possible to have an overlook of each layer's opacity. OTOH, one might argue a visible slider for each layer would clutter UI.

I think the opacity (display) widget should be a small (eg 10x2 or 20x4 pixel) progress bar for each layer. While I'm at it, a lock widget could be a similarly small green (unlocked) or red (locked) round button. It doesn't need to actually look like a lock.

yahvuu
2013-08-31 09:53:52 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

Am 31.08.2013 00:56, schrieb Richard Gitschlag:

Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:48:39 +0200 From: ofnuts@laposte.net
Next these pesky users will also want to know the blend mode and locks for that layer or group... could all this be displayed when hovering the pointer over the layer thumbnail?

That sounds like a decent idea: Hover the mouse over a layer and it will pop up a tooltip identifying the two things you can't tell from a glance - the layer's blending mode and opacity.

or one step closer to the action -- what about providing such adjustments directly on canvas?

-peter

Ofnuts
2013-08-31 10:21:53 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On 08/31/2013 11:53 AM, yahvuu wrote:

Am 31.08.2013 00:56, schrieb Richard Gitschlag:

Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:48:39 +0200 From: ofnuts@laposte.net
Next these pesky users will also want to know the blend mode and locks for that layer or group... could all this be displayed when hovering the pointer over the layer thumbnail?

That sounds like a decent idea: Hover the mouse over a layer and it will pop up a tooltip identifying the two things you can't tell from a glance - the layer's blending mode and opacity.

or one step closer to the action -- what about providing such adjustments directly on canvas?

How would you identify a layer on the canvas? The topmost non-transparent one (like the Move tool uses)?

yahvuu
2013-08-31 11:13:46 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

Am 31.08.2013 12:21, schrieb Ofnuts:

How would you identify a layer on the canvas? The topmost non-transparent one (like the Move tool uses)?

that's a tough question. And where to set the opacity threshold when choosing from multiple layers that contribute to the pixel under the cursor?

Things become worse with blend modes like multiply, when there is no way to determine which layer is on top just by looking at the canvas. For example, a bottom black layer can appear as if it were on top of a multiply-mode layer:
http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/canvas-visible-order.png

On the solutions side, it has been suggested to tilt the canvas in 3D to make the layer stack accessible:
http://gimp-brainstorm.blogspot.de/2008/06/3d-layers.html This scheme works surprisingly well for analysing the hierarchical structure of HTML documents: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/3D_View#Controlling_the_3D_view

One might also think of digging into the layer stack analogous to digging into the earth which reveals the stratigraphy of rock layers.

just brainstorming, peter

Dominik Tabisz
2013-08-31 13:28:18 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

3D view could be a solution for powerfull PC, not for "too big image on too little ram".

Would it be possible to use one program with many UIs? Let's say i start GIMP and can switch between single window mode, multiple window mode. Within each of this mode there could be next switch to see content in "normal structure" or 3D view.

It reminds ideas like 3D goopher or Compiz - nice shiny toy to hang computer. Gimp is image editing software - it operate on files that need lot of ram. All this 3D features would just add another demands for hardware. At least leave an option to disable them. Otherwise we might end up with insane paradox: Apple workstation and Photoshop CS 666 will be cheaper option than hardware capable of running Gimp 6.66

I don't want to offend anyone - just trying to remind You, that every feature has its cost - no matter whether we count it in hardware resources or in money. If You manage to create additional alternative UI for Gimp - great, if You make "normal" Gimp more expensive just to get few visible clues - this is controversial.

Dominik Tabisz

2013/8/31, yahvuu :

Am 31.08.2013 12:21, schrieb Ofnuts:

How would you identify a layer on the canvas? The topmost non-transparent one (like the Move tool uses)?

that's a tough question. And where to set the opacity threshold when choosing from multiple layers
that contribute to the pixel under the cursor?

Things become worse with blend modes like multiply, when there is no way to determine which layer is
on top just by looking at the canvas. For example, a bottom black layer can appear as if it were on
top of a multiply-mode layer:
http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/canvas-visible-order.png

On the solutions side, it has been suggested to tilt the canvas in 3D to make the layer stack
accessible:
http://gimp-brainstorm.blogspot.de/2008/06/3d-layers.html This scheme works surprisingly well for analysing the hierarchical structure of HTML documents:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/3D_View#Controlling_the_3D_view

One might also think of digging into the layer stack analogous to digging into the earth which
reveals the stratigraphy of rock layers.

just brainstorming, peter

_______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

Dominik Tabisz
Ofnuts
2013-08-31 16:50:08 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On 08/31/2013 01:13 PM, yahvuu wrote:

Am 31.08.2013 12:21, schrieb Ofnuts:

How would you identify a layer on the canvas? The topmost non-transparent one (like the Move tool uses)?

that's a tough question. And where to set the opacity threshold when choosing from multiple layers that contribute to the pixel under the cursor?

Things become worse with blend modes like multiply, when there is no way to determine which layer is on top just by looking at the canvas. For example, a bottom black layer can appear as if it were on top of a multiply-mode layer:
http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/canvas-visible-order.png

On the solutions side, it has been suggested to tilt the canvas in 3D to make the layer stack accessible:

On the other hand the Layers stack is already accessible in the Layers list...

2013-09-01 15:32:25 UTC (about 11 years ago)
postings
2

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

--REVISED INITIAL POST-- {As of Sunday, September 1, 2013} GIMP: Opacity Access Obscurity Requires Features Access Clarification and/or GUI Design Change Immediately----------------- I. Would-be Satisfied User Question(s) & II. System Feature Access Change(s) Request(s) | Recommendation(s), for GIMP SMEs and Online Enthusiasts' Forum: ----------------- Maddening | Urgent Help Request: ----------------- I. Apparent is that there exists no navigational work-around for a lost, deleted or simply a not included/provided Layer Opacity access option/feature ... at least in my version of GIMP v. 2.8.6. ----------------- I cannot locate among the application's Primary Tabs (my initial capital letter convention, for that level feature | option; sub-tabs appear/designated with a lower-case "t") any tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal, for access to the much desired Layer Opacity tool/option. ----------------- Unknown are its [Layer Opacity access option/feature's] access point(s).----------------- Can (is it possible to phrase the scenario any more explicitly) that be stated any more didactically? LOL.----------------- Simply put, Photoshop-PS+ (whichever "Creative Suite" iteration of PS ....), for many of its options | features | tools | instruments [et cetera] readily details/depicts (if not immediately, then elsewhere) ie, via several (redundant, so to speak) access points, by often cross-referenced app overlaps (eg, navigational paths | aka click sequences, within a Tab or its sub-tab .....): that facilitates access among each [option(S) | feature(s) | tool(s) | instrument(s) etc.], accessible from and by a variety of methods eg, keystroke combos (aka shortcuts), various " any tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal" data entry/data input fields | points, click sequence(s) and/or selectable other selectable options. ----------------- {ASIDE 1 of 2: Albeit, often one such Layer Opacity tool is readily referenced in several of the extant online tutorials (reviewed were several youtube videos, too).... wherein it was repeated referenced and shown as a "given" "palette" or tabbed item; and it is, too, often depicted, replete with supporting screenshots, no less: so the feature must exist .... perhaps commanded by hidden access privilege(s) somehow [snicker], somewhere within GIMP ... for some users, at least ;-)}:----------------- GIMP's GUI & Other Layer Opacity Access Priorities | Change(s) Recommendation(s): What is aired above (and further detailed below) may prove to be under one and the same rubric; namely, GUI Change. ----------------- Primary Layer Tab's, anticipated, Layer Opacity tool's option | feature tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal, click sequence or the like access point(s) is ........................... not found! ]----------------- Wracked one's brain ..... to no avail. ----------------- For starters, "no", I simply do not intend to "re-install GIMP", as the assertion that my "app might be corrupted ... does not hold true (late August 2013, downloaded and installed one two occasions. Not so fast; it appears that the problem(s) cited are systemic to GIMP, and that their resolution would require (a) further elucidation ie, "how to" by GIMP (ie, how to access the Layer Opacity tool aka glider); and, (b) require GIMP to apply apt resource resolution measures, ASAP [improve GIMP's GUI, as recommended, herein]. ----------------- Its Layer Opacity tool/option's form-factor should be manifest typically as an Opacity Glider aka a selectable |adjustable progress bar: a percentage (%) transparency scroll bar and/or an expectable like prompt data-entry field conceivably, which would execute a "layer's desired fade user-specification (opacity)". Amiss is any Layer Opacity adjustment tool [if such does in fact already exist) access point(s), as the videos mentioned demonstrate its existence], whatsoever. ----------------- Despite CIRCULAR narratives communicated on this, GIMP's official site, and among the posts of others created by or in service to | contributed to by GIMP enthusiasts, there exists no CLEAR nor MEANINGFUL ADDRESS (redress) as to how one MAKES APPARENT aka would ACCESS ie, access point(s) for Layer Opacity: neither by mouse clicking nor by eg, shortcut keys entry navigation/specification, for such a Layer Opacity tool access point(s). ----------------- II. Again, when no such tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal can be readily found to an extant -- and ideally in more than one -- access point and by more than one navigational path -- GIMP's version (again, v. 2.8.6) is rendered effectively useless for layered imagery work; user (or would-be user) satisfaction spirals downward rapidly after a work-around search -- proves counter-intuitive ie, poor anticipatory GUI provisioning, or within the application ie, its Help and/or its User Guide index, and/or among online forums -- exceeds 5, 10, 30, 60, 120 minutes.----------------- FIASCO is what that scenario spells: How could GIMP's SMEs have failed on such an imperative SDLC GUI [non-thorough UAT?], indexing and easy-access multi-cross-referencing point(s) objective for this version's release?----------------- What, if any, work-around, for Layer Opacity tool access point(s) within the application, for selection of a layer(s) desired opacity display aka fade level, would be advised, if, in fact, said does exist as a viable tool (just not easily nor readily accessed) within GIMP 2.8.6? Why the Layer Opacity access point(s) convolution? ----------------- Welcomed would be directions as to any navigation(al) click sequence | breadcrumb path for said Layer Opacity tool access point(s). NONE is (access point) | are (access points) currently apparent under GIMP's 2.8.6 banner | top-level ribbon | panel of Primary Tabs, nor is such evident within its sub-tabs nor User Guide's Index nor tutorials nor blogosphere. ----------------- {ASIDE 2 of 2: in fact, Layer Opacity should appear in, so addressed, in both the very beginning of the User Guide, and then latter in the specific Layers section .... but in a slight bit more detailed explication [while never addressing the fundamental Layer Opacity access query, nor anticipating it, within the latter] nor those tabs' secondary tabs, nor, for that matter under any tertiary-level tabs. ----------------- Primary Tabs, namely, Tools, Layer, View nor any those Primary Tabs' "cross-linked sub-tabs" to other tab/sub-tab/path/palette link/hot button/menu/sub-menu/relevant-other-tab/data entry field prompt | window/mini-portal | option(s) | location(s) | navigational click sequence, it appears, would avail a sort of Layer Opacity Adjustment tool, whatsoever.}----------------- Lack of any easy-access point(s) aka obscure Layer Opacity (eg, a % glider) tool(s) blemishes one's entire would-be GIMP user-experience. Address of said shortcomings is URGENTLY needed, as recommended.----------------- HOW TO?: Layer Opacity Adjustment Tool [Accessibility, if Any?----------------- Again the question persists: "Is there a reset button (virtual) and/or Command Keystroke Combo and/or some other keystroke arrangement aka Shortcut Key combo or click option | selection, for immediate access point(s) ie, what path | process | navigational sequence that would avail to a GIMP user a Layer Opacity .... 'err .... glider ... 'err .... palette (essentially, a layer's opacity fade glider .... )? ----------------- If so, kindly direct me as to its access path | process | procedure immediately; again, I am attempting to use GIMP v. 2.8.6.----------------- I recall vividly, from years ago, that upon my initial GIMP v. 2.6 trial, in fact, readily apparent were an array of access points | paths for/to GIMP's Layer Opacity tool | dialogue field(s). Among that tool's access options was a sub-tab option under Primary Layer Tab, which could also be accessed from Tools Tab's sub-tabs (or their respective pop-up menus or sub-menus: options | features lists), as well as comforting was the fact that said automatically appeared as an option palette in Toolbox's adjustable-size tool-box | "floating icon or palette" column. Several online forum contributors mention that | similar functionality for v 2.6.----------------- Where and how do I access | activate Layer Opacity feature | option | tool: either % glider and/or keystroke entry of desired layer % fade render; unable to find said. ----------------- One would think that GIMP management/development/administrative SMEs OUGHT TO seriously consider my GUI Change Requests-GUI-CRs, and answer my queries, SINCE Layer Opacity is a PRIMARY aka FUNDAMENTAL image manipulation requisite ... and OBSCURE ACCESS POINT(s) [anything other than, at least, immediate sub-tab access from the Primary Layer Tab and the Tools Tab seems counter-intuitive, poor GUI and an utterly ridiculous would-be user nuisance] simply do not make the grade with user | would-be user communities. ----------------- Additionally, the '"clouded Layer Option access point(s)" problem, detailed above, pervades all current relevant online instructional content; that would-be GIMP's and others navigational directions eg, "how to" (at phase of app use), navigate to a Layer Opacity access point(s): that navigation is amiss; dearth of plain language information/directions bodes dark days for GIMP's prospects at garnering new users or retaining user allegiance .... as the same scenario, it seems, applies to several of the app's other features/options tested. ----------------- Whatever happened to User Acceptance Testing-UAT; was it performed prior to release -- are user (or would-be user) comments/recommendations actually considered? ----------------- Currently, online (anywhere) explication goes wanting for a clear, concise and expedient answer | directive; and, that multi-faceted matter bespeaks serious, if not utterly fatal GIMP application, GUI and User Guide (in its "indexed format") design flaws. Shortcomings of that significance likely silently and unrelentingly go unaddressed, overlooked and/or "lightly dismissed" within the ranks of GIMP {could they "really not be aware of them .... matters of such fundamental significance?"}, which, unwittingly, likely turns off legions of would-be eager converts to GIMP from other imaging software ... from the get (at least those whose experience matches my own). ----------------- Do what you can to remedy those flaws, and kindly advise, ASAP. ----------------- Thank you for your replies to my Layer Opacity access point(s) information request." -----------------

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On the other hand the Layers stack is already accessible in the Layers list...

Alexandre Prokoudine
2013-09-01 20:03:09 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 7:32 PM, PSCS5ImagerConvert wrote:

--REVISED INITIAL POST-- {As of Sunday, September 1, 2013}

Still not human-readable. We already know you are frustrated, no need to repeat that. Try explaining in short sentences what you are trying to achieve and what you see instead. Like this:

1. I need to do [description of action] 2. I do [first step]
3. I do [second step]
4. I do [X=1 step]
5. Instead I see [pronlem description]

Alexandre

Gary Aitken
2013-09-01 20:35:08 UTC (about 11 years ago)

Layer Opacity Access Point(s) Madness

That was pretty difficult to get a handle on. Is this what you're looking for:

Windows/Dockable Dialogs/Layers (L) 2nd thing down is an "Opacity" slider.

Are you looking for a way to select a specific layer and operate on it using the Opacity slider via the keyboard? Or just find the slider in the first place?

Gary