Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
This discussion is connected to the gimp-user-list.gnome.org mailing list which is provided by the GIMP developers and not related to gimpusers.com.
This is a read-only list on gimpusers.com so this discussion thread is read-only, too.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
Steve, I had meant to ask you about the Gimp vs Pshop
discussion you were having, before all the "name calling" began.
:)
I'm glad I found the original topic.
What I wanted to ask you, goes to what you were saying about the benefits of Photoshop being basically in bit depth etc.
I used to work with Photoshop every day for 10 years, and I think that people who truly have a preference merely like the interface better because they're used to it. I haven't been in graphics for a while now, and I find Gimp every bit as good as the old(er) Photoshop I used to use, especially for print or web pages. Of course, the last versions I ever even opened was CS or CS2 of pshop. It does seem support for RAW in Gimp is rather problematic.
A few other things I'd like to ask you though, since you seem very "graphics friendly" so to speak, speaking in SVG speak, etc.
(I used to be on the old svg dev site on yahoogroups, I think I joined that group around post 1860 or so. Heady days those were about xml etc.)
But, my interest lately for graphics is in/about things like mobile development, android or iphone/pad development. There's an android group here in Houston that recently formed. Very interesting stuff. http://www.meetup.com/Houston-Android-Developers/
At one of the meetings there was actually a game developer guy who had made games for android, and used solely gimp! I thought that was cool.
But one of the areas that I think Photoshop and Adobe has as a benefit, is the inclusion of the programs in the entire suite of other programs that are included with the CS suites or other programs that Adobe has since they purchased Macromedia. Flash, Dreamweaver, etc. I haven't really used these since I got out of graphics, but I would think that's a big draw for a lot of designers. Though, Flash is a big no-no for a lot of people, standards gurus, etc.
But, an example of something which I was really surprised about was the
connection of Dreamweaver to PhoneGap, here:
http://phonegap.com/
http://blogs.nitobi.com/andre/index.php/2011/04/12/adobe-dreamweaver-5-5-supports-phonegap/
I wonder your thoughts about that. Would you think that Gimp could
work in a similar
way with phonegap or has anyone heard of using/modifying Gimp for
mobile dev purposes?
Just wondrin'
Dan
On 12/28/11, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 12/28/2011 11:02 AM, Daniel Smith wrote:
It's just funny! It's a play on the idea that it's the not-quite-capable version of Photoshop. At least they didn't name it SIMP!
That IS funny. I started using the GIMP when Tor Lillqvist ported it to Windows many long years ago. At that time, it was not-quite-capable in two senses: It had WAY fewer useful tools and functions than it does today, and it tended to crash a LOT on the OS in question. But I kept it and have been using it ever since.
Warning: I have not been on this list long enough to know whether what follows might start a pointless debate or even a flame war. It would be very naive to think that Adobe does not have a PR contractor monitoring this list, armed with focus group tested talking points. So please put on your asbestos gloves...
On a couple of occasions I tried Photoshop: Installed the thing, bookmarked a bunch of tutorials and how-to docs, checked out textbooks from the library, etc. And on these occasions I have found no reason to prefer the Adobe beast. The largest differences I saw were an inherently awkward interface paradigm and slower workflow. A lot of familiar tools seemed to be missing. The price tag was the least important factor weighing against Photoshop IMO.
Maybe getting used to the GIMP ruined me for life. Maybe all the tutorials, howto docs, and manuals I found for Photoshop suck. Maybe forcing myself to use nothing but Photoshop for a few weeks at a time was not a fair trial of the product. But my working hypothesis is that Photoshop is a not-quite-AS-capable version of the GIMP.
Millions of dollars have been spent to make "photoshop" a verb. But the days when sneering, condescending print shop sales reps refused to take any work not submitted in PSD format are over - I watched that change happen between about 2005 and 2007 in my local area. And from what I have seen IRL in the last couple of years, the GIMP is starting to eat Adobe's lunch in terms of mindshare in the "geeky teenager" market that determines the shape of tomorrow's software landscape - only starting, but it's a solid start.
Under the hood, Photoshop uses more bits per channel to represent and process images. It also uses the LAB color model, which requires more bits per channel to represent the same color gamut as RGB, so the difference is not as large as it would seem at first glance. Bigger numbers mean smaller rounding errors, this is a Good Thing, and the GIMP will be getting more bits per channel shortly. But way over 95% of those who believe that the GIMP is a "less capable Photoshop" will never process an image for an application where this difference in "bit depth" makes any difference in the finished product.
The fact that Adobe Inc. has a "partner" relationship with commercial printer manufacturers is an important difference if you happen to own and operate such a printer. But this has noting to do with producing the source files submitted to the said print shop, Accurately converting a GIIMP-made CMYK TIFF file to PSD for proofing and color adjustment on the computer connected to the production printer is a one click operation. So this is a "difference that makes no difference" unless you do happen to own and operate that printer.
In some circles it is an article of faith that the GIMP is "not suitable for professional graphics work." But in recent years over half of my income has come from editing images with the GIMP. And that, not "has a vendor training certificate" or "paid for an expensive product", is the definition of professional graphics work.
:o)
Steve
_______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
gimp-user-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Daniel Smith wrote:
or has anyone heard of using/modifying Gimp for mobile dev purposes?
It doesn't make a terrible lot of sense :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
To all early New Years partiers...
Just to be clear, though it's funny,
I didn't mean using gimp ON mobile
devices, I meant using gimp to develop
FOR mobile devices. Now reread those
links I sent, rethink, repost.
Thanks
Dan
On 12/31/11, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Daniel Smith wrote:
or has anyone heard of using/modifying Gimp for mobile dev purposes?
It doesn't make a terrible lot of sense :)
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
_______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
gimp-user-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
* Daniel Smith [12-31-11 12:17]:
I used to work with Photoshop every day for 10 years, and I think that people who truly have a preference merely like the interface better because they're used to it. I haven't been in graphics for a while now, and I find Gimp every bit as good as the old(er) Photoshop I used to use, especially for print or web pages. Of course, the last versions I ever even opened was CS or CS2 of pshop. It does seem support for RAW in Gimp is rather problematic.
I don't understand this statement, last sentence. RAW support for/in gimp is provided by the same decoder most of the commercial apps utilize, dcraw. And is updated much more frequently and w/o cost compared to the "commercial" apps.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Daniel Smith wrote:
To all early New Years partiers...
There are, you know, timezones ;-)
Just to be clear, though it's funny, I didn't mean using gimp ON mobile
devices, I meant using gimp to develop FOR mobile devices.
http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/10/19/exporting-qml-from-photoshop-and-gimp/
That's about all I know of.
Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
I don't understand this statement, last sentence.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
* Alexandre Prokoudine [12-31-11 14:11]:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
I don't understand this statement, last sentence.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Only if you mean DCRaw. Because UFRaw development pretty much stagnated. Two releases in last two years. Compare that to ACR.
Yeah, the current version of UFraw is pretty far behind. Gimp does not make use of dcraw directly, it uses UFraw. And since dcraw is not a library, UFraw doesn't benefit from updates to dcraw unless they keep up with releases. UFraw currently barely supports my 2-year-old Pentax K-x, it's pretty pathetic.
--
Frank Gore
THE place to talk photography!
www.FriendlyPhotoZone.com
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On 12/31/2011 01:45 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Daniel Smith wrote:
or has anyone heard of using/modifying Gimp for mobile dev purposes?
+1 - a bitmap image is a bitmap image, as long as the editor and the target app support one relevant format in common, that's all there is....
:o)
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
In message
, Frank Gore wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Only if you mean DCRaw. Because UFRaw development pretty much stagnated. Two releases in last two years. Compare that to ACR.
Yeah, the current version of UFraw is pretty far behind. Gimp does not make use of dcraw directly, it uses UFraw. And since dcraw is not a library, UFraw doesn't benefit from updates to dcraw unless they keep up with releases. UFraw currently barely supports my 2-year-old Pentax K-x, it's pretty pathetic.
I've only been skimming the messages in this thread, but the discussion of raw files caught my attention, and I have a question...
I've been planning on buying a Lumix DMC-FZ150 next year, when the prices come down some more. (I already own a DMC-ZS7 and I think it is probably the best camera I've ever owned. Images are sharp, and when the thing is in it's intelligent auto mode, it is almost impossible to take a bad picture.)
One of the advantages of the FZ150, compared to its predecessors in the FZ series, is that it can do raw. (It also has an intelligent hotshoe... one of only about three or four long zoom bridge cameras that has that, and something I personally find indispensible.)
Anyway, I just now went and resarched it and found that the Lumix cameras produce their raw images into something called .RW2 files.
I'd just like to ask if there is going to be any problem in reading those into Gimp and/or getting them converted into something like standard tiff files, preferably on Linux/FreeBSD, rather than say, Windoze. (I don't like to use Windoze if I can avoid it.)
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
* Ronald F. Guilmette [12-31-11 16:42]:
I've been planning on buying a Lumix DMC-FZ150 next year, when the prices come down some more.
...
I'd just like to ask if there is going to be any problem in reading those into Gimp and/or getting them converted into something like standard tiff files, preferably on Linux/FreeBSD, rather than say, Windoze.
I would guess that when it doubt, the best course of action would be to check.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
* Patrick Shanahan [12-31-11 16:54]:
* Ronald F. Guilmette [12-31-11 16:42]:
I've been planning on buying a Lumix DMC-FZ150 next year, when the prices come down some more.
...
I'd just like to ask if there is going to be any problem in reading those into Gimp and/or getting them converted into something like standard tiff files, preferably on Linux/FreeBSD, rather than say, Windoze.
I would guess that when it doubt, the best course of action would be to check.
Guess I should do the entire job :^)
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Anyway, I just now went and resarched it and found that the Lumix cameras produce their raw images into something called .RW2 files.
Might be worth checking if it can also generate .DNG files. All of my Pentax cameras from the last 3 years (K-7, K-x, K-5) have the option of creating either Pentax-specific RAW files (.PEF) or .DNG RAW files. The .DNGs are pretty standardized and can be processed by most RAW processing software regardless of camera-specific support. The only issues you'll come across is that sometimes the extra pixels on some edges of the frame won't be automatically cropped out if your specific camera model isn't supported.
--
Frank Gore
THE place to talk photography!
www.FriendlyPhotoZone.com
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
In message ,
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Ronald F. Guilmette [12-31-11 16:42]:
I've been planning on buying a Lumix DMC-FZ150 next year, when the prices come down some more.
...
I'd just like to ask if there is going to be any problem in reading those into Gimp and/or getting them converted into something like standard tiff files, preferably on Linux/FreeBSD, rather than say, Windoze.
I would guess that when it doubt, the best course of action would be to check.
Well, yea, I looked at that. But often, online documentation doesn't tell the real or complete story, so I thought that I would ask.
Also, dcraw may grok .RW2 files OK, but didn't somebody here just say that UFRaw (which Gimp also needs to read these kinds of files?) is seriously behind the curve?
Bottom line: Has anybody here actually, personally, and successfully used Gimp+DCRaw+UFRaw to read Lumix raw files?
That's my real question. (And I'd like to know before I spend about four hundred bucks on a new Lumix camera.)
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
In message ,
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Guess I should do the entire job :^)
Yes, thanks. I saw that too. But if you will recall, is was just earlier today that Frank Gore wrote:
Yeah, the current version of UFraw is pretty far behind. Gimp does not make use of dcraw directly, it uses UFraw. And since dcraw is not a library, UFraw doesn't benefit from updates to dcraw unless they keep up with releases. UFraw currently barely supports my 2-year-old Pentax K-x, it's pretty pathetic.
The Pentax K-x is listed on the page you pointed me to (as being a supported camera type) but there's a difference between "supported" and (in Frank Gore's words) "barely supported". And I've experienced that difference myself in other situations with other (entirely unrelated) software and it is most frustrating and unproductive. (I still can't get my new Epson Perfection V500 Photo scanner to work with anything *NIX, even though it theory it should be able to.)
So this explains why I asked about gimp support for .RW2 files, even though I did in fact already see the pages you helpfully pointed me to. I'd like to know if Gimp supports .RW2 files, or if it only "barely" supports them (perhaps even, God forbid, in a "pathetic" way).
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
In message
, Frank Gore wrote:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Anyway, I just now went and resarched it and found that the Lumix cameras produce their raw images into something called .RW2 files.
Might be worth checking if it can also generate .DNG files. All of my Pentax cameras from the last 3 years (K-7, K-x, K-5) have the option of creating either Pentax-specific RAW files (.PEF) or .DNG RAW files. The .DNGs are pretty standardized and can be processed by most RAW processing software regardless of camera-specific support. The only issues you'll come across is that sometimes the extra pixels on some edges of the frame won't be automatically cropped out if your specific camera model isn't supported.
Thank you!
I am researching this now. So far it doesn't look good, which is to say that I don't think that the Lumix cameras can produce .DNG files on their own.
But I also learned that there is a free "DNG Converter" utility available on the adobe.com site, an I just downloaded a copy of it, so I'll have it later on, just in case.
The bad news? Of course, it is only available for Windoze and Mac. :-( Oh well. Better than nothing if I can't get Gimp+DCRaw+UFRaw to work for any reason.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
But I also learned that there is a free "DNG Converter" utility available on the adobe.com site, an I just downloaded a copy of it, so I'll have it later on, just in case.
The bad news? Of course, it is only available for Windoze and Mac. :-( Oh well. Better than nothing if I can't get Gimp+DCRaw+UFRaw to work for any reason.
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/373
I've used Digikam for my photo collections for years.
--
Frank Gore
THE place to talk photography!
www.FriendlyPhotoZone.com
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:55:21 -0800 "Ronald F. Guilmette" wrote:
The bad news? Of course, it is only available for Windoze and Mac. :-( Oh well. Better than nothing if I can't get Gimp+DCRaw+UFRaw to work for any reason.
Did you check digikam?
http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/products_y7.htm
"Exceptionally, this product is also listed below as a raw converter, (but only counts once towards the total of products that support DNG). It is the first DNG Converter that runs native on Linux. (It also runs on Windows and MacOS-X). "
John
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
On 12/31/2011 05:55 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
But I also learned that there is a free "DNG Converter" utility available on the adobe.com site, an I just downloaded a copy of it, so I'll have it later on, just in case.
The bad news? Of course, it is only available for Windoze and Mac. :-( Oh well. Better than nothing if I can't get Gimp+DCRaw+UFRaw to work for any reason.
Since this is not the kind of application that would be expected to depend on proprietary Microsoft libraries, and runs on "Windoze and Mac", it is very likely (99% or so) that it will work perfectly well under WINE on Linux. If you can get hold of any file that it can convert, you can test it under WINE and if it works "at all", it should work "for all" supported file formats.
Or if that fails, Virtualbox and and any old Microsoft OS installer disk should be just a little less inconvenient than buying a low end used computer with the required OS already on it...
:o)
Steve
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
* Ronald F. Guilmette [12-31-11 17:39]:
So this explains why I asked about gimp support for .RW2 files, even though I did in fact already see the pages you helpfully pointed me to. I'd like to know if Gimp supports .RW2 files, or if it only "barely" supports them (perhaps even, God forbid, in a "pathetic" way).
Surely you can find and download a native raw, .rw2, file from your chosen camera and try it :^)
ps: I did before getting my d70, then d200, d3. Too big a step for unknowns....
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
In message
, Frank Gore wrote:
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/373
I've used Digikam for my photo collections for years.
Hey! Thanks a bunch! I didn't know about that one at all.
Photoshop vs Gimp for mobile dev?
Well I'm glad I asked.
Thanks for all the great info and answers.
But one thing I forgot to mention in my first big spiel,
(I'm very new to Gimp so am just trying to get the capabilities of it)
is, whether anyone knows of has personal experience using Gimp
for incorporation with video editing or like After Effects, work like
that? Just wondering. I see some pages on that, but thought
since you all have so much experience with it...
Thanks again for all the help,
Dan
On 12/31/11, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
In message
, Frank Gore wrote:
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/373
I've used Digikam for my photo collections for years.
Hey! Thanks a bunch! I didn't know about that one at all. _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
gimp-user-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
