On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Patrick -> Patricius -> patrician ->Honourable Man Dotan -> A biblical valley near my home Gimp - > A flat trimming of silk; A physically disabled person; A sexual fetishist who likes to be dominated and who dresses in a leather or rubber body suit with mask, zips, and chains

Names are more than a collection of sounds, they have meanings and derivatives. Furthermore, they evoke past experience. When I hear the sounds "pa trik" I think of a volunteer I once met who had a way with women and once broke a toilet. The name has funny and playful connotations for me. Likewise, when I hear the sound "gi mp" I am reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN2-I31Imis

It's been only, what, a mere month since the last discussion on the meaning of "GIMP"? Yeah, it's about time we all were reminded of Pulp Fiction. Why did it take you so long?

So we'll do another BDSM flavoured splash screen to keep you entertained, shall we? And this time let's go for something really disturbing :)

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On 12/26/2011 12:32 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 20:57, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

I'm sure you are a terrific person, also, but the name in no worse in it's stead than "Dotan".

Or, for that matter, Patrick/paka

Patrick -> Patricius -> patrician ->Honourable Man

Not quite right. I don't believe that patrician has ever meant an honorable man. Patrician is from the Middle-English patricion, derivative (via ancient French) of the plural of the latin patres which was what the Romans called senators. They were considered the fathers of Rome, and the founding parents. From this we got an association with nobility, i.e. patrician can mean a person of breeding and culture or an aristocrat. It only sort of accidentally matches up with current meanings of honorable or noble, since aristocrats/nobility/political leaders now or in the past, are at times not very honorable or noble, eh?

Dotan -> A biblical valley near my home Gimp - > A flat trimming of silk; A physically disabled person; A sexual fetishist who likes to be dominated and who dresses in a leather or rubber body suit with mask, zips, and chains

Webster's 11th Collegiate didn't get that last one, and I doubt most would know it. I assume it's quite recent. You'd have to be into that scene I suppose to hear it. The gimp as a cripple is a fairly recent meaning from the 20s, gimp meaning in particular a limp is from the 30s, gimp as an ornamental flat braid or round cord goes back to the seventeenth century, and gimp as a fishing line strengthened with wire goes back to the nineteenth century.

Names are more than a collection of sounds, they have meanings and derivatives. Furthermore, they evoke past experience. When I hear the sounds "pa trik" I think of a volunteer I once met who had a way with women and once broke a toilet. The name has funny and playful connotations for me. Likewise, when I hear the sound "gi mp" I am reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN2-I31Imis

That may well be, and I'm sorry for you that that's so, (unless you like it of course), and I also have all sorts of associations with the word gimp, but GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program, no? That's what I think of.

Patrick

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:29, Steve Kinney wrote:

May I suggest that if you
want to change the name, suggest a better one and make a case FOR your proposed name?

Rima: Raster Image Manipulation Application

Chimp: GNU Image Manipulation Program (the acronym does not have to match perfectly!)
Chimp: Charismatic Image Manipulation Program Chimp: Image Manipulation Program
Prima: Practical Image Manipulation Application Prima: Image Manipulation Application Image: Image Manipulation Application by GNU E* Imagine: Image Manipulation Application by GNU I* N* E*. Oriaa: Open Raster Image Alteration Application

I could go on...

You are.

--

Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il

http://what-is-what.com
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It's just funny! It's a play on the idea that it's the not-quite-capable version of Photoshop. At least they didn't name it SIMP!

:)

On 12/28/11, andrew.alangdondavies.es wrote:

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:29, Steve Kinney wrote:

May I suggest that if you
want to change the name, suggest a better one and make a case FOR your proposed name?

Rima: Raster Image Manipulation Application

Chimp: GNU Image Manipulation Program (the acronym does not have to match perfectly!)
Chimp: Charismatic Image Manipulation Program Chimp: Image Manipulation Program
Prima: Practical Image Manipulation Application Prima: Image Manipulation Application Image: Image Manipulation Application by GNU E* Imagine: Image Manipulation Application by GNU I* N* E*. Oriaa: Open Raster Image Alteration Application

I could go on...

You are.

--

Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il

http://what-is-what.com
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gimp-user-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

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On 12/28/2011 11:02 AM, Daniel Smith wrote:

It's just funny! It's a play on the idea that it's the not-quite-capable version of Photoshop. At least they didn't name it SIMP!

That IS funny. I started using the GIMP when Tor Lillqvist ported it to Windows many long years ago. At that time, it was not-quite-capable in two senses: It had WAY fewer useful tools and functions than it does today, and it tended to crash a LOT on the OS in question. But I kept it and have been using it ever since.

Warning: I have not been on this list long enough to know whether what follows might start a pointless debate or even a flame war. It would be very naive to think that Adobe does not have a PR contractor monitoring this list, armed with focus group tested talking points. So please put on your asbestos gloves...

On a couple of occasions I tried Photoshop: Installed the thing, bookmarked a bunch of tutorials and how-to docs, checked out textbooks from the library, etc. And on these occasions I have found no reason to prefer the Adobe beast. The largest differences I saw were an inherently awkward interface paradigm and slower workflow. A lot of familiar tools seemed to be missing. The price tag was the least important factor weighing against Photoshop IMO.

Maybe getting used to the GIMP ruined me for life. Maybe all the tutorials, howto docs, and manuals I found for Photoshop suck. Maybe forcing myself to use nothing but Photoshop for a few weeks at a time was not a fair trial of the product. But my working hypothesis is that Photoshop is a not-quite-AS-capable version of the GIMP.

Millions of dollars have been spent to make "photoshop" a verb. But the days when sneering, condescending print shop sales reps refused to take any work not submitted in PSD format are over - I watched that change happen between about 2005 and 2007 in my local area. And from what I have seen IRL in the last couple of years, the GIMP is starting to eat Adobe's lunch in terms of mindshare in the "geeky teenager" market that determines the shape of tomorrow's software landscape - only starting, but it's a solid start.

Under the hood, Photoshop uses more bits per channel to represent and process images. It also uses the LAB color model, which requires more bits per channel to represent the same color gamut as RGB, so the difference is not as large as it would seem at first glance. Bigger numbers mean smaller rounding errors, this is a Good Thing, and the GIMP will be getting more bits per channel shortly. But way over 95% of those who believe that the GIMP is a "less capable Photoshop" will never process an image for an application where this difference in "bit depth" makes any difference in the finished product.

The fact that Adobe Inc. has a "partner" relationship with commercial printer manufacturers is an important difference if you happen to own and operate such a printer. But this has noting to do with producing the source files submitted to the said print shop, Accurately converting a GIIMP-made CMYK TIFF file to PSD for proofing and color adjustment on the computer connected to the production printer is a one click operation. So this is a "difference that makes no difference" unless you do happen to own and operate that printer.

In some circles it is an article of faith that the GIMP is "not suitable for professional graphics work." But in recent years over half of my income has come from editing images with the GIMP. And that, not "has a vendor training certificate" or "paid for an expensive product", is the definition of professional graphics work.

:o)

Steve

On 12/28/2011 12:48 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

On 12/28/2011 11:02 AM, Daniel Smith wrote:

It's just funny! It's a play on the idea that it's the not-quite-capable version of Photoshop. At least they didn't name it SIMP!

That IS funny. I started using the GIMP when Tor Lillqvist ported it to Windows many long years ago. At that time, it was not-quite-capable in two senses: It had WAY fewer useful tools and functions than it does today, and it tended to crash a LOT on the OS in question. But I kept it and have been using it ever since. ...
In some circles it is an article of faith that the GIMP is "not suitable for professional graphics work." But in recent years over half of my income has come from editing images with the GIMP. And that, not "has a vendor training certificate" or "paid for an expensive product", is the definition of professional graphics work.

I think we have covered every possible topic in these thread(s). :D

Anyways, to contribute: PIMP - The Photoshop-like Image Manipulation Program LIMP - The Lovely Image Manipulation Program WIMP - The Wonderful Image Manipulation Program

Any better? ;)

-Stefan Maerz

Steve, if you don't mind, what kind of work do you do? Just wondering, you can reply off list if you'd rather, or on.
Thanks
Dan

On 12/28/11, Steve Kinney wrote:

On 12/28/2011 11:02 AM, Daniel Smith wrote:

It's just funny! It's a play on the idea that it's the not-quite-capable version of Photoshop. At least they didn't name it SIMP!

That IS funny. I started using the GIMP when Tor Lillqvist ported it to Windows many long years ago. At that time, it was not-quite-capable in two senses: It had WAY fewer useful tools and functions than it does today, and it tended to crash a LOT on the OS in question. But I kept it and have been using it ever since.

Warning: I have not been on this list long enough to know whether what follows might start a pointless debate or even a flame war. It would be very naive to think that Adobe does not have a PR contractor monitoring this list, armed with focus group tested talking points. So please put on your asbestos gloves...

On a couple of occasions I tried Photoshop: Installed the thing, bookmarked a bunch of tutorials and how-to docs, checked out textbooks from the library, etc. And on these occasions I have found no reason to prefer the Adobe beast. The largest differences I saw were an inherently awkward interface paradigm and slower workflow. A lot of familiar tools seemed to be missing. The price tag was the least important factor weighing against Photoshop IMO.

Maybe getting used to the GIMP ruined me for life. Maybe all the tutorials, howto docs, and manuals I found for Photoshop suck. Maybe forcing myself to use nothing but Photoshop for a few weeks at a time was not a fair trial of the product. But my working hypothesis is that Photoshop is a not-quite-AS-capable version of the GIMP.

Millions of dollars have been spent to make "photoshop" a verb. But the days when sneering, condescending print shop sales reps refused to take any work not submitted in PSD format are over - I watched that change happen between about 2005 and 2007 in my local area. And from what I have seen IRL in the last couple of years, the GIMP is starting to eat Adobe's lunch in terms of mindshare in the "geeky teenager" market that determines the shape of tomorrow's software landscape - only starting, but it's a solid start.

Under the hood, Photoshop uses more bits per channel to represent and process images. It also uses the LAB color model, which requires more bits per channel to represent the same color gamut as RGB, so the difference is not as large as it would seem at first glance. Bigger numbers mean smaller rounding errors, this is a Good Thing, and the GIMP will be getting more bits per channel shortly. But way over 95% of those who believe that the GIMP is a "less capable Photoshop" will never process an image for an application where this difference in "bit depth" makes any difference in the finished product.

The fact that Adobe Inc. has a "partner" relationship with commercial printer manufacturers is an important difference if you happen to own and operate such a printer. But this has noting to do with producing the source files submitted to the said print shop, Accurately converting a GIIMP-made CMYK TIFF file to PSD for proofing and color adjustment on the computer connected to the production printer is a one click operation. So this is a "difference that makes no difference" unless you do happen to own and operate that printer.

In some circles it is an article of faith that the GIMP is "not suitable for professional graphics work." But in recent years over half of my income has come from editing images with the GIMP. And that, not "has a vendor training certificate" or "paid for an expensive product", is the definition of professional graphics work.

:o)

Steve

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gimp-user-list@gnome.org
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On 12/27/2011 11:44 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 04:30, Patrick Horgan wrote:

... elision by patrick ...

Thank you for that insight!

You're welcome.

... more elisions by patrick ....

I have asked both native English speakers and ESL about the name Gimp, the _only_ response that I have ever gotten was the limp and the sexual fetish. The etymology may go back to different meanings, but for people who lived in the last few decades only the negative connotations remain.

Try it, ask someone "What is a proton?", "What is a hard drive?", "What is a gimp?" and see what answers they give you.\

Ok. I did. I asked a lot of random people and about half had no idea, and most of the rest said it was a limp. Interestingly, younger geeks (don't get started on possible meanings of THAT!) all knew it was an image editor. Apparently people who want to do things like mod skins for minecraft prefer GIMP. No one said the sexual fetishist, but I probably don't run in the right circles for that.

... yet more elisions ...

In any case, I have no vested interest in promoting GIMP adoption, I have only presented it as part of my job. I present my findings to those who might find them actionable, here on the list. I won't appeal to emotion or argue about it, I only state what I find: the name GIMP is tainted. You might as well name the program Swastika (which was a symbol of peace before the Third Reich).

That's a fairly extreme metaphor to use right after saying you wouldn't appeal to emotion, no?

I've introduced some to GIMP and found others already using it and no one has mentioned being put off by the name yet. I believe that it offends you but I think you're an outlier.

Patrick

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

I only state what I find: the name GIMP is tainted. You might as well name the program Swastika (which was a symbol of peace before the Third Reich).

WOOHOO! Godwin's Law!!! Now this worthless topic can finally be PUT TO REST!

...for another month or so, when some other bored zealot picks up the torch again.

This is the most boring and annoying recurring topic on this mailing list. Even more boring and annoying than the one that starts like "GIMP should be more like Photoshop..." Perhaps a new list could be started so these lame "discussions" can stop annoying those of us who don't give a damn. I think I speak for 99% of the list subscribers.

-- Frank Gore
THE place to talk photography!
www.FriendlyPhotoZone.com

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

I only state what I find: the name GIMP is tainted. You might as well name the program Swastika (which was a symbol of peace before the Third Reich).

WOOHOO! Godwin's Law!!! Now this worthless topic can finally be PUT TO REST!

...for another month or so, when some other bored zealot picks up the torch again.

This is the most boring and annoying recurring topic on this mailing list. Even more boring and annoying than the one that starts like "GIMP should be more like Photoshop..." Perhaps a new list could be started so these lame "discussions" can stop annoying those of us who don't give a damn. I think I speak for 99% of the list subscribers.

-- Frank Gore
www.ProjectPontiac.com

On 01/01/2012 07:42 PM, Frank Gore wrote:

I think I speak for 99% of the list subscribers.

or more :)

On 11-12-26 03:32 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Patrick -> Patricius -> patrician ->Honourable Man

The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) lists the definition as "an aristocrat or nobleman" with a North American specific meaning of "a member of a long-established wealthy family". A third definition given is "a member of a noble family or class in ancient Rome".

Gimp -> A flat trimming of silk; A physically disabled person; A sexual fetishist who likes to be dominated and who dresses in a leather or rubber body suit with mask, zips, and chains

[snip]

Likewise, when I hear the sound "gi mp" I am reminded of this:

[snipped link to short clip from the movie "Pulp Fiction"]

BTW, neither the OED nor the Oxford American Dictionary include the fetish related definition for the word "gimp".

What I find interesting is how that small scene in the movie made such a big impact in the minds of some people. It had been quite a while since I first saw the film. I had to go back and watch it again to find this supposed connection with the film everyone kept talking about now and then on this list.