Hi,

i'm not a developer but i'm using gimp since ten years (nearly the early days). It is true that there are now many applications. Just think of : - those photo organizer such as F-Spot or digikam+ShowFoto, which are made for we, good fathers
- more cool apps (you mention panos like Hugin), but not only - More specific application does much job too : think of Ufraw : if you are just a photographer and want clean photos : that's enough for you.

Ok not many photo retouching program, but krita is here. An also, i've to apologize, i'm beginning myself using ... Blender... even for photo-retouching and compositing, even if it is not its main purpose (if some want to work on this, i think it is only huge what possibilities you get with their node editor)

I think that now the image processing is maturen mroe specific applications are sucking some good contributor, and user too.

But also, i have already made some changes to Scribus or Inkscape code, never understood anything to Gimp's. Gimp is not to blame, but i can guess some developer are also lost this way. And it is sometimes hard to find explanation. You when you begin, it's hard to enter so many code lines, especially for a beginner.

I hope it is a beginning of answer.

pygmee

Last I mailed it was said that there are not that many GIMP developers. Where are all image processing application developers have gone? Is there some other open source image manipulation software which sucks all the developers?

In recent years Siggraph conference proceedings have had more image processing papers. For example: They are now making giga size photos with panoramic techniques. They are using hundreds of tourist photos for making 3D walkthroughs through city. Google earth and competitors are making 3D models from photos. And much more.

It looks like today's image processing software needs to be redefined because there are many new applications for photos. You may suggest some other application for specific task as an easy solution but please don't.

Juhana

Nope Radar,

Gimp is under important internally changes - most of the actual limits are not from developers minds but from actual toolkit limitations.

They work hard to introduce for next GIMP versions a new engine which will make possible a lot of new posibilities. This mean they have to rewrite almost all code in benefit of us.

They can't work on 5 directions on the same time.

When this work will be done Editing, Photo Manipulation, CMYK and PDF printing and exporting, ... all of these will be some of the last problems about we will complain.

They also command some UI researches for the optimal GUI redesign.

They are "pour et simple" too busy right now to introduce new features - that you may see on LightZone or RawTherapee - on the actual (older) codebase.

Well, I hope you understand now - the future is not gray.

Sorin

radar.map35@free.fr wrote:

Hi,

i'm not a developer but i'm using gimp since ten years (nearly the early days). It is true that there are now many applications. Just think of : - those photo organizer such as F-Spot or digikam+ShowFoto, which are made for we, good fathers
- more cool apps (you mention panos like Hugin), but not only - More specific application does much job too : think of Ufraw : if you are just a photographer and want clean photos : that's enough for you.

Ok not many photo retouching program, but krita is here. An also, i've to apologize, i'm beginning myself using ... Blender... even for photo-retouching and compositing, even if it is not its main purpose (if some want to work on this, i think it is only huge what possibilities you get with their node editor)

I think that now the image processing is maturen mroe specific applications are sucking some good contributor, and user too.

But also, i have already made some changes to Scribus or Inkscape code, never understood anything to Gimp's. Gimp is not to blame, but i can guess some developer are also lost this way. And it is sometimes hard to find explanation. You when you begin, it's hard to enter so many code lines, especially for a beginner.

I hope it is a beginning of answer.

pygmee

Last I mailed it was said that there are not that many GIMP developers. Where are all image processing application developers have gone? Is there some other open source image manipulation software which sucks all the developers?

In recent years Siggraph conference proceedings have had more image processing papers. For example: They are now making giga size photos with panoramic techniques. They are using hundreds of tourist photos for making 3D walkthroughs through city. Google earth and competitors are making 3D models from photos. And much more.

It looks like today's image processing software needs to be redefined because there are many new applications for photos. You may suggest some other application for specific task as an easy solution but please don't.

Juhana

radar.map35@free.fr wrote:

Ok not many photo retouching program, but krita is here. An also, i've to apologize, i'm beginning myself using ... Blender... even for photo-retouching and compositing, even if it is not its main purpose

I don't know why you would have thought of even trying to use Blender for photo-retouching. It isn't designed for it and its steep learning curve tends to put some people off it.

If you are using it more as a compositing tool (due to its node editor), you will probably like GEGL. You will probably like GIMP even more when GEGL is integrated in to it.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 10:15:48PM +0300, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:

Last I mailed it was said that there are not that many GIMP developers. Where are all image processing application developers have gone? Is there some other open source image manipulation software which sucks all the developers?

'sucks' is an interesting terminology to use for this.

In recent years Siggraph conference proceedings have had more image processing papers. For example: They are now making giga size photos with panoramic techniques. They are using hundreds of tourist photos for making 3D walkthroughs through city. Google earth and competitors are making 3D models from photos. And much more.

it looks like a corporate attempte to destroy 'free', don't you think? i wonder, do you prefer picassa over GIMP? i am certain that it has advantages that GIMP does not offer.

It looks like today's image processing software needs to be redefined because there are many new applications for photos. You may suggest some other application for specific task as an easy solution but please don't.

GIMP has established a tradition which i would like to see it shed. it did this when i put the web site on the gnome cvs server. the person who used to maintain what is now known as http://classic.gimp.org took the project over. he told me in person that there were 'things that i did not understand' and started to rewrite the site (which at that point was only short about 15 pages) to work in netscape4. all the while, promising to write something that manages 'meta' information. this person established a tradition of making solid sounding promises which sound better than a person who is actually doing work (and tends to complain and 'quit' and such). so, GIMP might be stuck in some tragic loop due to trust issues with gnome and promises that were never kept and making a big deal about 'quitting' when the 'quitting' never actually happened.

it is very weird how putting the sources in an environment which is supposed to be shared by trusted people should destroy it. but that is what happened! i seriously do not think that it was because of me (as has been suggested now for a few years) that people do not want to contribute to GIMP, i think it is because of the vulnerability displayed by the people who maliciously took my project over. of course, if those people care to comment, i could be mistaken....

i think it would be actually good for this developer, as a human being, to confess his mistakes and bending of the politeness rules here so everyone can get on with it.

meanwhile, do like they do and say all of the right things. only promise debonair-like that you will do something for the project. all you have to do is say the right things -- you do not actually have to do anything!! and ouija, you get access to all of GIMP money (which you have to work through GNOME to get) and you do not actually have to do anything to get it!!

it is a great scam!! congrats to the guy who 'manhandled' my project to get it!

carol

On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 10:15:48PM +0300, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:

Last I mailed it was said that there are not that many GIMP developers. Where are all image processing application developers have gone? Is there some other open source image manipulation software which sucks all the developers?

If they are fiew, how great they are! GIMP 2.4 is wonderful and better then anything I see in the horizon (yes krita comprised...)

In recent years Siggraph conference proceedings have had more image processing papers. For example: They are now making giga size photos with panoramic techniques. They are using hundreds of tourist photos for making 3D walkthroughs through city. Google earth and competitors are making 3D models from photos. And much more.

As some other stated, the project could not follow 5 directions... GIMP is going to integrate GEGL so more wonderful features are in the near future...

It looks like today's image processing software needs to be redefined because there are many new applications for photos. You may suggest some other application for specific task as an easy solution but please don't.

As a temporary solution, to make your everyday work done, I see no counterindications to use some more specific tool (for now)...

bye

Well, I see this developer forum become an user forum - this is not what is intended.

We should let developers to work on their own peace else they will spent precious time responding to complains.

For Photo Correction passionates I will set today a page for download LightZone for Linux (yes is free for Linux) at : http://www.theagency.com.ro/lightzone For other good solutions use Google for RawTherapee OR digiKam OR blueMarine.

for Panoramas - search on Google for Hugin.

That's all about photo correction tools - at the right time we will see more photo tolls on Gimp - until then use the tools about I talk in previous paragraph.

Peace for all.

Sorin

P.S. Carol, please told me more about your project. Use nemes.sorin@gmail.com if U have time.

Marco Ciampa wrote:

On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 10:15:48PM +0300, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:

Last I mailed it was said that there are not that many GIMP developers. Where are all image processing application developers have gone? Is there some other open source image manipulation software which sucks all the developers?

If they are fiew, how great they are! GIMP 2.4 is wonderful and better then anything I see in the horizon (yes krita comprised...)

In recent years Siggraph conference proceedings have had more image processing papers. For example: They are now making giga size photos with panoramic techniques. They are using hundreds of tourist photos for making 3D walkthroughs through city. Google earth and competitors are making 3D models from photos. And much more.

As some other stated, the project could not follow 5 directions... GIMP is going to integrate GEGL so more wonderful features are in the near future...

It looks like today's image processing software needs to be redefined because there are many new applications for photos. You may suggest some other application for specific task as an easy solution but please don't.

As a temporary solution, to make your everyday work done, I see no counterindications to use some more specific tool (for now)...

bye

On 8/30/07, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:

It looks like today's image processing software needs to be redefined because there are many new applications for photos. You may suggest some other application for specific task as an easy solution but please don't.

I seriously don't get your point, sorry :)

Just a year ago we didn't have much of Qtpfsgui that, for example, now implements last year's invention of Rafa? Mantiuk in HDR field.

Just a year ago we didn't have HDR preview and exposure manipulation in hugin, not speaking about deghosting as this year's GSoC project.

Just a year ago we didn't have any open source panorama viewer for web browers (we now have FreePV).

Just a year ago we didn't have real color management in GIMP.

Just a year ago we didn't have ubercool "real" color palette and multiple selection visualizations in Krita.

And the list goes on.

The only thing I personally am stil missing is photography workflow oriented application like Aperture or Lightroom. This is where I expect digiKam, F-Spot and Rawstudio to shine soon (UFRaw is still best choice for me when it comes to actual processing, and if its core would be added to Rawstudio, my workflow would only improve).

So look around and you'll see a lot of interesting things happening.

Alexandre