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Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

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Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) Raphaël Quinet 16 Aug 13:09
  Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) Martin Nordholts 17 Aug 01:15
   Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) Raphaël Quinet 17 Aug 10:57
    Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) David Marrs 20 Aug 01:29
     Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) Martin Nordholts 20 Aug 07:56
     Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) Michael Schumacher 20 Aug 10:14
      Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) David Marrs 20 Aug 19:58
       Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability) saulgoode@flashingtwelve.brickfilms.com 20 Aug 20:28
Raphaël Quinet
2007-08-16 13:09:32 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

I originally intended to submit this in Bugzilla, but let's discuss this here first:

One of the changes from GIMP 2.2 to 2.4 is the streamlining of some tools and removal of some annoying tool pop-ups that were breaking the workflow and stealing the focus from the canvas. The pop-up is gone from the Crop tool but is still present in the transform tools.

However, as noted by one user on IRC today, this has also removed the big "Crop" button that existed previously in the pop-up. Although there is now a status bar message that says "Click or press Enter to crop" once the crop rectangle has been defined, it seems that some users still expect to see some kind of button somewhere. This issue may also affect other tools such as the transform tools if we also get rid of their pop-ups.

One idea would be to put such a button in the status bar, just like the Cancel button that appears when a plug-in displays its progress information. This could be done for all tools that have a state in which some actions should be confirmed (some selection tools, transform tools, etc.) But other solutions may also be possible, unless we close this issue as WONTFIX.

-Raphaël

Martin Nordholts
2007-08-17 01:15:37 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

Raphaël Quinet wrote:

One of the changes from GIMP 2.2 to 2.4 is the streamlining of some tools [...] However, as noted by one user on IRC today, this has also removed the big "Crop" button that existed previously in the pop-up. [...] One idea would be to put such a button in the status bar, just like the Cancel button that appears when a plug-in displays its progress information.

Interesting observation, but does it make sense to have buttons in a place that (to my understanding) is supposed to be a "monologue", i.e. just providing information; not offer interaction? Wouldn't it make more sense to have this button in the Tool Options?

Now, I know that we don't like more stuff in there, but imo that's the right place for such a button.

- Martin Nordholts

Raphaël Quinet
2007-08-17 10:57:34 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 01:15:37 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:

Raphaël Quinet wrote:

One of the changes from GIMP 2.2 to 2.4 is the streamlining of some tools [...] However, as noted by one user on IRC today, this has also removed the big "Crop" button that existed previously in the pop-up. [...] One idea would be to put such a button in the status bar, just like the Cancel button that appears when a plug-in displays its progress information.

Interesting observation, but does it make sense to have buttons in a place that (to my understanding) is supposed to be a "monologue", i.e. just providing information; not offer interaction? Wouldn't it make more sense to have this button in the Tool Options?

Well, the bug report was about having a button somewhere - anywhere.

The suggestion to place it in the status bar (in the same place as the Cancel button that already appears when a plug-in is running) was just an idea, but certainly not the only way to solve this problem (assuming that we consider it as a real problem that has to be solved).

Now, I know that we don't like more stuff in there, but imo that's the right place for such a button.

Tool options should be reserved for options, not for actions. And indeed, we have too much stuff in there: most users already have to scroll in order to see all options. On the other hand, we already have some actions in there, such as "Auto Shrink Selection" (rectangle tool) or "Create Selection from Path" and "Stroke Path" (paths tool). So maybe we could add another button among the tool options.

I don't like the idea of overlays that has been suggested by others (displaying controls over the image) and we should get rid of the annoying pop-ups, so for the moment I only see the following options: 1) put the confirmation button in the status bar, 2) put the confirmation button in the tool options, 3) ignore the issue and assume that all users will read the message suggesting that they press Enter. Other ideas or opinions are still welcome...

-Raphaël

David Marrs
2007-08-20 01:29:45 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

Clicking inside the cropped region also implements the action. It's actually a feature I'm not sure I like because it deviates from the rectangle tool's implementation of the same action - to hide the handles. Well, I don't know if that's what the implementation is technically but that's what it effectively does and it's what I use it for. So my instinct with the crop tool is to do the same thing, to get a feel for how the crop might look. and it goes ahead and performs the action before I'm ready for it to. Undo fixes the problem but it's still annoying.

I like the idea of an "accept" button to the right or left of the status bar. I don't think most users would think to look in the properties dialogue for the action and there's really no other logical place for it to go. I seem to remember buttons being in there for other tasks. I would presume that most users who don't know the keyboard controls aren't going to hide the status bar.

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Martin Nordholts
2007-08-20 07:56:10 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

David Marrs wrote:

Clicking inside the cropped region also implements the action. It's actually a feature I'm not sure I like because it deviates from the rectangle tool's implementation of the same action - to hide the handles.

Actually, clicking when there is a pending rectangle does the same thing for both; execute the tool.

You can confirm this by adding a rectangle to an existing rectangle with the Rectangle Select Tool, (hold Shift before creating the second rectangle), click (to execute), and click again.

You will not get second rectangle back, but a rectangle that covers the entire selected area (which is a feature actually).

- Martin Nordholts

Michael Schumacher
2007-08-20 10:14:58 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

Von: David Marrs

Clicking inside the cropped region also implements the action. It's actually a feature I'm not sure I like because it deviates from the rectangle tool's implementation of the same action - to hide the handles. Well, I don't know if that's what the implementation is technically but that's what it effectively does and it's what I use it for.

No, that's not what it does effectively. If applies the resizable selection frame to the selection mask. In any other selection mode than replace, you'll face the same problem with this behaviour as you now do with crop.

HTH, Michael

David Marrs
2007-08-20 19:58:31 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

Michael Schumacher wrote:

Von: David Marrs

Clicking inside the cropped region also implements the action. It's actually a feature I'm not sure I like because it deviates from the rectangle tool's implementation of the same action - to hide the handles. Well, I don't know if that's what the implementation is technically but that's what it effectively does and it's what I use it for.

No, that's not what it does effectively. If applies the resizable selection frame to the selection mask. In any other selection mode than replace, you'll face the same problem with this behaviour as you now do with crop.

Yes, I suspected I was over-simplifying. Nevertheless, the ability to hide the handles is very useful, maybe less so for selections but definitely for crops. Is the ability to do this implemented in some other way. If it isn't, can we consider adding it?

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saulgoode@flashingtwelve.brickfilms.com
2007-08-20 20:28:29 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Missing button to confirm some tool actions (usability)

Quoting David Marrs :

Yes, I suspected I was over-simplifying. Nevertheless, the ability to hide the
handles is very useful, maybe less so for selections but definitely for crops.
Is the ability to do this implemented in some other way. If it isn't, can we consider adding it?

You could press and hold the mouse button within the cropped region -- the handles disappear while the button is down and when you release, you are returned to the previous state.