gimp "switchers"
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| gimp "switchers" | Robert Carter | 01 Aug 04:25 |
| gimp "switchers" | Liam R E Quin | 01 Aug 05:10 |
| gimp "switchers" | Robert Carter | 01 Aug 06:11 |
| gimp "switchers" | Alexandre Prokoudine | 01 Aug 06:43 |
| gimp "switchers" | Sven Neumann | 01 Aug 08:37 |
| gimp "switchers" | Sven Neumann | 01 Aug 08:35 |
| gimp "switchers" | Sven Neumann | 01 Aug 08:45 |
gimp "switchers"
I'm new to the list but i've done a bit of reading on the archives to survey the opinions and suggestions about user interfaces for gimp.
I am a photoshop user from way back. I'm also a Mac user who want's to switch to Linux. It seems Gimp is the only credible photoshop replacement in the linux world - correct me if i'm wrong. I want to have a gimp that works just like photoshop - and i'm prepared to do the work to make this an option in addition to what we have already.
I'm not afraid of C code, and the reading i've done has given me an idea of what is required to customise the menus and keyboard shortcuts to make things feel comfy for PS people like me. I'm not interested in forking Gimp as this usually causes problems down the line as the application develops.
What is the best way for me to make a contribution to the project?
There seems to be a fair bit of plug in technology in gimp to provide
support. I would want to modify:
= Menu layout
= Keyboard short cuts ( including backspace, tab and space which are
standard PS shortcuts )
And also possibly (less important)
= GTK behaviours of the panels (photoshop has several tools on the
same button)
= Fullscreen behaviour (panels remain visible, windowed / grey
ground / black ground - toggling)
My main question is: How to do this in a way that will work in harmony with the current customisation options, so people can switch to standard gimp UI if they wish.
Rob
gimp "switchers"
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 14:25 +1200, Robert Carter wrote:
[...]
I would want to modify:
= Menu layout
= Keyboard short cuts ( including backspace, tab and space which are standard PS shortcuts )And also possibly (less important) = GTK behaviours of the panels (photoshop has several tools on the same button)
= Fullscreen behaviour (panels remain visible, windowed / grey ground / black ground - toggling)
Sometimes it's actually better to have a tool that's very different than one that's almost identical. When I started using the GNOME mail program, evolution, I sent out a lot of messages before I had finished editing them, by mistake, and eventually realised that the keystroke for "send immidiately without asking for confirmation" in evolution was the same as "go back to the top of the message to review your draft" in Sun mailtool that I had used years earlier. The programs were similar enough I was trying to do things without even realising it that were different.
There was (or is) a fork of GIMP called gimpshop that tried/tries to be more like PhotoShop, but it still won't have adjustment layers, and it will still be better at rotating than photoshop :-) (I love the "revese grid" mode).
So I'd urge you to start by writing up more carefully what changes you think would be most helpful and why, and why they would either benefit non-PhotoShop users or at least not have a negative impact on existing GIMP users.
Liam
gimp "switchers"
On 1/08/2007, at 3:10 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote:
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 14:25 +1200, Robert Carter wrote:
[...]
I would want to modify:
= Menu layout
= Keyboard short cuts ( including backspace, tab and space which are standard PS shortcuts )And also possibly (less important) = GTK behaviours of the panels (photoshop has several tools on the same button)
= Fullscreen behaviour (panels remain visible, windowed / grey ground / black ground - toggling)Sometimes it's actually better to have a tool that's very different than one that's almost identical. When I started using the GNOME mail program, evolution, I sent out a lot of messages before I had finished editing them, by mistake, and eventually realised that the keystroke for "send immidiately without asking for confirmation" in evolution was the same as "go back to the top of the message to review your draft" in Sun mailtool that I had used years earlier. The programs
were similar enough I was trying to do things without even realising it
that were different.
Thanks for your advice. We all have different feelings about how we use software and I believe there is no best way to suit everyone. Part of what I love about free software (an unix for that matter) is the ability to customise your workflow and environment. My point here is that i'd like to selfishly cater to my personal tastes and make these available to others who have the same or similar tastes.
There was (or is) a fork of GIMP called gimpshop that tried/tries to be
more like PhotoShop, but it still won't have adjustment layers, and it will still be better at rotating than photoshop :-) (I love the "revese
grid" mode).
Yes, I tried gimpshop and it's not very good. Changing the menus is a start, but fast photoshop people do 90% of the work with the keyboard. I don't dispute the quality of what gimp does in terms of features and image processing.
So I'd urge you to start by writing up more carefully what changes you think would be most helpful and why, and why they would either benefit non-PhotoShop users or at least not have a negative impact on existing GIMP users.
I don't seek to change the gimp's default key bindings and menu but to offer an alternative that may be activated if wanted. Do you think this can be realistically integrated with the gimp's present architecture?
Documentation is important of course. Should I post here, or to the wiki: http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/
Rob
gimp "switchers"
On 8/1/07, Robert Carter wrote:
I don't seek to change the gimp's default key bindings and menu but to offer an alternative that may be activated if wanted. Do you think this can be realistically integrated with the gimp's present architecture?
To the best of my knowledge, it's already possible. GIMP is shipped with an old keyboard shortcuts scheme for PS6 (not updated for 2+ years). The file is called ps-menurc and, theoretically, after an update could be used as ~/.gimp-2.3/menurc
Documentation is important of course. Should I post here, or to the wiki: http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/
I maintain a wiki page in Russian [1] for those coming with Photoshop background. It covers topics as
- support for features of PSD (open/save), as of most recent
development version of GIMP;
- using various PS resources (actions, brushes etc.);
- using PS plug-ins;
- correspondence of tools (e.g. both Clone Stamp and Pattern Stamp can
be substituted with just one Clone tool in GIMP using some options);
- how different PS functions are implemented in GIMP (e.g. backward
rotation mode instead of measuring).
Is anyone interested in EN version of the document?
[1] http://www.linuxgraphics.ru/wiki/doku.php?id=quicktoots-migration-photoshop-to-gimp
Alexandre
gimp "switchers"
Hi,
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 16:11 +1200, Robert Carter wrote:
I don't seek to change the gimp's default key bindings and menu but to offer an alternative that may be activated if wanted. Do you think this can be realistically integrated with the gimp's present architecture?
There is already a menurc that installs Photoshop keybindings in GIMP. Just copy ps-menurc to your personal GIMP folder and rename it to menurc.
Changing the menus as an alternatives is considered a bad idea. It would destroy the work of translators and, more importantly, documentation writers. You wouldn't be able to use the user manual any longer and you wouldn't be able to follow the GIMP tutorials. If there were two alternative menu layouts and different terms, that would confuse our users more than anything else.
We are open for changes to the menu layout and to the terms being used. If there are good reasons for a change, then we will do it. Making it more like Photoshop is in general not a valid reason though as GIMP doesn't aim to be like Photoshop.
Sven
gimp "switchers"
Hi,
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 08:43 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
I maintain a wiki page in Russian [1] for those coming with Photoshop background. It covers topics as
- support for features of PSD (open/save), as of most recent development version of GIMP;
- using various PS resources (actions, brushes etc.); - using PS plug-ins;
- correspondence of tools (e.g. both Clone Stamp and Pattern Stamp can be substituted with just one Clone tool in GIMP using some options); - how different PS functions are implemented in GIMP (e.g. backward rotation mode instead of measuring).
That sounds very useful. I think that an english version of this document would be a welcome addition to our webpages.
Sven
gimp "switchers"
Hi,
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 14:25 +1200, Robert Carter wrote:
And also possibly (less important) = GTK behaviours of the panels (photoshop has several tools on the same button)
= Fullscreen behaviour (panels remain visible, windowed / grey ground / black ground - toggling)My main question is: How to do this in a way that will work in harmony with the current customisation options, so people can switch to standard gimp UI if they wish.
Why would you want to do it this way? Just work with us to improve the standard UI. That means a better user experience for all users and much less hassle and maintainance work than making such things optional.
We will not work towards making GIMP more like Photoshop but that doesn't mean that we aren't willing to make drastic changes to the user interface. Perhaps you should discuss your ideas with the team working on the redesign of the GIMP user interface (http://gui.gimp.org). We will appreciate your help when it comes to implementing these changes.
Sven
