On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 09:21:00PM +0200, David Neary wrote:

Carol wrote:

there have been no other volunteers?

Since I'm on digest (as I said before), could you keep me on the CC line, please? I'll be more reactive that way.

I have several volunteers - Jon Phillips will be there for CC and Inkscape, Scott Bronson will be helping with GNOME, Jonathan Blandford's organising some people from RedHat for GNOME, Glitz, AILGX and so on.

For the GIMP, I still don't have any volunteers, but you yourself suggested a few weeks back that I look for people who I knew were giving a good image of the GIMP and invite them, rather than looking for volunteers. That was good advice. Unfortunately, any number of things have caused me to spend time not hunting down people, and I really need some help doing that (as you did for Adrian).

i keep looking for some sign of competence in this letter. dave is my friend and i am certain that he is competent to conduct this GIMP business, but i am looking for actual evidence of this in this email in particular.

can you please leave wilber off from whatever it is you are doing.

in fact, perhaps jimmac can find the time to make a tee shirt that states that wilber is dead. gnome can just steal gimps money and get it over with.

or -- i am totally wrong and this letter is just full of competence and i am just not seeing it.

when i got mad on the irc and quit working on the web site those few time -- this one thing became the only unprofessional thing you could do with this project or something. i am going to suggest that this is not a good way to do things.

personally, i would feel more confident in dave's competency in this position if he would feel passionate enough about it to actually read the gimp mail lists and even quit a few times since he feels strongly about things.

this, what i see here, this is just sad.

another possible tee shirt might be "we drank the gnome kool aid and then we ate wilber".

carol

Hi,

Carol Spears wrote:

i keep looking for some sign of competence in this letter. dave is my friend and i am certain that he is competent to conduct this GIMP business, but i am looking for actual evidence of this in this email in particular.

Pray tell - what evidence is there to the contrary?

personally, i would feel more confident in dave's competency in this position if he would feel passionate enough about it to actually read the gimp mail lists and even quit a few times since he feels strongly about things.

So reading a mailing list through a digest is not reading a list? I don't understand. And I did quit, remember?

I'm feeling all this aggression Carol - is there something you'd like to get off your chest?

Cheers,
Dave.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 09:13:13AM +0200, Dave Neary wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

i keep looking for some sign of competence in this letter. dave is my friend and i am certain that he is competent to conduct this GIMP business, but i am looking for actual evidence of this in this email in particular.

Pray tell - what evidence is there to the contrary?

the letter has been deleted from the reply. maybe you could paste the email and be real clear about what i am missing.

personally, i would feel more confident in dave's competency in this position if he would feel passionate enough about it to actually read the gimp mail lists and even quit a few times since he feels strongly about things.

So reading a mailing list through a digest is not reading a list? I don't understand. And I did quit, remember?

it is less than participating in a real exchange. it screws up threading.

I'm feeling all this aggression Carol - is there something you'd like to get off your chest?

no aggression here.

confusion and disappointment yes. but this is hardly "aggression".

i believe that if you look at the letter i wrote again, you will see that i am asking nicely and with a little bit of humor that you work with a little more honesty.

how could this be aggressive?

carol

Carol Spears wrote:

the letter has been deleted from the reply. maybe you could paste the email and be real clear about what i am missing.

http://www.mail-archive.com/gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/msg11413.html

it is less than participating in a real exchange. it screws up threading.

Is that my problem, or yours? I change the subject line usually - didn't this time, since the subject was the digest.

i believe that if you look at the letter i wrote again, you will see that i am asking nicely and with a little bit of humor that you work with a little more honesty.

I missed that. So can you clarify, please, in what sense I'm being dishonest? Also, if you could be very precise and explain to me why you think that I am somehow making GNOME eat Wilber, that would be helpful.

how could this be aggressive?

So - for clarification for my little brain: you're calling me dishonest, incompetent, you're implying that somehow I'm stealing GIMP money (if that's not the case, please explain what you mean by Carol said:

in fact, perhaps jimmac can find the time to make a tee shirt that states that wilber is dead. gnome can just steal gimps money and get it over with.

)

Now, in the light of all that, can you explain to me how that's not aggressive?

Cheers,
Dave.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:27:55AM +0200, Dave Neary wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

the letter has been deleted from the reply. maybe you could paste the email and be real clear about what i am missing.

http://www.mail-archive.com/gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/msg11413.html

it is less than participating in a real exchange. it screws up threading.

Is that my problem, or yours? I change the subject line usually - didn't this time, since the subject was the digest.

if it is my problem, i only have it with digest responders.

i believe that if you look at the letter i wrote again, you will see that i am asking nicely and with a little bit of humor that you work with a little more honesty.

I missed that. So can you clarify, please, in what sense I'm being dishonest? Also, if you could be very precise and explain to me why you think that I am somehow making GNOME eat Wilber, that would be helpful.

the dishonesty would be found mostly in the realm where "politeness" and "competency" are confused. where professionalism excludes people who actually do things and are.

i have gotten this sense or this feeling since the very beginning of this thread which is in another place in my inbox that the goal here is to make me angry and demand to go to boston.

if you ask me to make a list of the ten places that i want to go to the most, that list would only contain one location. home. i want to go home. not to Boston, not to the next gnome koolaid tasting party -- to my home where i never actually wanted to leave from.

there should be hundreds of people who can go to SIGRAPH and do better for GIMP than i can. possibly, these people have actually had the good fortune to have been managing their own lives for the last three or more years.

i have the expectation that you and others working with things here have at least some familiarity with the community and a consistent presence.

can you tell me clearly what is wrong with this expectation?

how could this be aggressive?

So - for clarification for my little brain: you're calling me dishonest, incompetent, you're implying that somehow I'm stealing GIMP money (if that's not the case, please explain what you mean by Carol said:

in fact, perhaps jimmac can find the time to make a tee shirt that states that wilber is dead. gnome can just steal gimps money and get it over with.

)

i said that the letter contained no sign of competency and that since i was sure this was not the case, i asked for help to see it.

that request was stripped from the reply.

even now, there is no competency being shown other than the ability to politely say nothing and politely morph the communication.

i think you are honestly doing that.

i would like you to step up your honesty. i did not mean to suggest you were being dishonest, i was asking for stronger honesty.

honesty, the original email -- it smelled like it was written by someone who had just paid a lot of money to go to one of those motivational speakers. i suggest that if you had written the same letter only after going to a concert or something, you would have seen the problems and the email would be different as it would have contained GIMP related content.

Now, in the light of all that, can you explain to me how that's not aggressive?

oh the things i am writing are not aggressive at all. i am not stripping your emails. that is aggressive. aggressive is also to be found on your end of the emails, where the person replying tries to make the person with actual opinions look different and twist the original message. i am not practicing this type of aggression right now.

for instance, in your plans, are there any GIMP people involved yet?

carol

Answering the two questions asked.

Carol Spears wrote:

i have the expectation that you and others working with things here have at least some familiarity with the community and a consistent presence.

can you tell me clearly what is wrong with this expectation?

On the one hand, nothing. On the other hand, since this mailing list has consistently gone down in quality in recent years, and since most of what I would like to see happen on this list appears to happen on IRC (or so I'm told), perhaps being subscribed to this list doesn't count as "a consistent presence". Oh - and I do have at least some familiarity with the community.

for instance, in your plans, are there any GIMP people involved yet?

No - Mukund volunteered to go, but will not be able to get a visa for the US. No-one from the US on gimp-user or gimp-developer has offered to go and man the stand. I know that both yosh and pippin will be around, but neither will be available for the stand, apparently.

Help would be appreciated. Particularly from US based artists. Which is why I posted my initial request on gimp-user, not gimp-developer.

But then, this particular call for help is probably useless, since I suspect that you & I are the only two people interested in this thread anymore. Although even that is probably not true.

Cheers, Dave.

Frédéric:
May be. I had looked at GEGL, but it is like a low level api for image manipulation, if I unterstood well, for a simple task (like, add a mask), you have to do a long sequence of operations. With GEGL you have to talk with it using a DAG, in wicth images are edges, and operations are nodes, its sound like a very complex task (and you have to know about image proccessing). If it is the way, I will use it and I will add a layer to make things a litle bit more easy to the user of this 'extension'. It is just, I think I have to know a lot about digital image proccessing to make a correct use of GEGL. I believe that if gimp will use it, and I can develop a thing that can 'talk' with GIMP, that will be perfect. Again, I know a little about those topics, if it is the recomended way to use GEGL or if I misunderstood about GECL function, I will use it instead GIMP. Please, if you can clarify the subject to me, that will be nice. Thanks again.
Mariano.

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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:02:53 +0200 From: Fr?d?ric
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] libGimp To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"

On Wednesday 19 July 2006 08:29, Sven Neumann wrote:

Gimp is a very nice development, and a great tool, I know its possible to use it like a user (thought its user interface), add it plug-ins (in scheme or python), and use it in a batch mode. But I want to extend it to allow to use its api from another program (suppose i had a console program and I need to edit a photograph, it would be nice to have access to a libgimp utility -and all its dependencies files- with the minimum install process).

I think you misunderstood what libgimp is doing. There is no image manipulation functionality in libgimp. libgimp is just used to allow the GIMP core and it's plug-ins to communicate. Without the GIMP core running, libgimp is useless. So you can't build an application, link to libgimp and use all the GIMP functionality. What you can do is to write a plug-in that communicates with a running GIMP process (or even to gimp-console, which is a gimp binary without the user interface).

Does GEGL work like Mariano thought libgimp work? In that case, it is maybe a better idea to start looking at GEGL, has it will be, in the future, the image manipulation library used in The Gimp...

-- Frédéric

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On Thursday 20 July 2006 04:28, Mariano Cuenze wrote:

Frédéric:
May be. I had looked at GEGL, but it is like a low level api for image manipulation, if I unterstood well, for a simple task (like, add a mask), you have to do a long sequence of operations. With GEGL you have to talk with it using a DAG, in wicth images are edges, and operations are nodes, its sound like a very complex task (and you have to know about image proccessing). If it is the way, I will use it and I will add a layer to make things a litle bit more easy to the user of this 'extension'. It is just, I think I have to know a lot about digital image proccessing to make a correct use of GEGL. I believe that if gimp will use it, and I can develop a thing that can 'talk' with GIMP, that will be perfect. Again, I know a little about those topics, if it is the recomended way to use GEGL or if I misunderstood about GECL function, I will use it instead GIMP. Please, if you can clarify the subject to me, that will be nice. Thanks again.

I'm afraid I can't help you more, as I'm not a gimp/GEGL developper: I don't know where GEGL will stop, and where Gimp will start.

Only Sven and Pippin can answer...

Cheers,