Aside from the huge thread that I seem to have perpetrated, which I'll follow given time, I'd like to explain a reason for my sudden disappearance into lurkdom on this list.

A lurker, and noticeably, a non-reader of this list, who I shall now name, a certain Jonathon Grant, has been writing to me unsolicitedly at my private email address giving quite attacking and unnecessary criticisms of my websites and their 'conformity to w3c standards'.

My websites are irrelevant to the productivity of this list, and I am 'outing' his behaviour to the list as I believe it is extremely rude and unproductive. It puts people off, rather than encourages people to use Free software - it perpetuates the image that Free Software advocates brow-beat others into submission and into using their so-called Free software. Yes, Free Software is Free by license, and that is why I prefer to use it. But to be Free, one must give Freedom of Choice to others - Freedom to choose Free Software or otherwise.

I am assisting this list, as a graphic designer, to help GIMP outperform Photoshop and, hopefully, become the preferred tool for graphic design. But, as I've already said, GIMP, Sodipodi and Inkscape (which I downloaded yesterday) are really not there yet. GIMP is very, very close - but crashes easily. Sodipodi and Inkscape are nowhere near.

I've already cited the list of applications I use - I brought them to this list in order to help the list understand the needs of a graphic designer.

Mr. Grant then suggested that I 'don't use GIMP at all'.

Que?

Or as Madonna said, in my previous (and CC-licensed) project, 'WTF?' (I co-produced the Madonna Remix Project - see www.iriXx.org/madonna.htm).

And yes, it ends in .htm - Mr. Grant criticised me for such trivial matters as abbreviated endings.

May I ask who the manager of this list is, and how you suggest to deal with unsolicited and insulting email coming from members who do not even contribute to the list, but instead seek out new members (I suggest, primarily women) to exercise their technical 'expertise'.

Mr. Grant has chosen the wrong person to mess with, if he's trying that avenue.

But I don't like fights, and thats the purpose of this message - to make an example of a person who is so cowardly as to go behind the back of this list and criticise my efforts privately - without even reading of my contributions towards the Free Software movement.

mC~

This is completely ridiculous, especially random threats of lawsuits for typos.

Does the /list/ (not you as an individual) wish to have the help of a professional graphic designer, or not?

I shall let you decide.

And yes, Mr. Grant, I also have solicitors who could sue you for publishing my private copyrighted correspondence with you (I did not specify the terms of my correspondence, therefore they are automatically under regular copyright, as I do so with all of my correspondence - whereas I shall presume that you do otherwise?).

But I consider it pathetic to play tit for tat, unlike you.

mC~

J. Grant wrote:

Hello List,

I feel obliged to respond to this slur on-list, to set the record straight publicly.

on the 26/10/04 22:12, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

Aside from the huge thread that I seem to have perpetrated, which I'll follow given time, I'd like to explain a reason for my sudden disappearance into lurkdom on this list.

A lurker, and noticeably, a non-reader of this list, who I shall now name, a certain Jonathon Grant, has been writing to me unsolicitedly at

"Jonathan". Please spell my name correctly in all of your slurs. I need legal clarity.

my private email address giving quite attacking and unnecessary criticisms of my websites and their 'conformity to w3c standards'.

I certainly did not state that. Please provide the email with full headers if you wish to substantiate your quote.

You posted to me, and many others, with your website addresses. You solicited the help of us. If you then change your mind about things you only have yourself to blame. You may like to consider un-subscribing from this list.

My websites are irrelevant to the productivity of this list, and I am 'outing' his behaviour to the list as I believe it is extremely rude and unproductive. It puts people off, rather than encourages people to use Free software - it perpetuates the image that Free Software advocates brow-beat others into submission and into using their so-called Free software. Yes, Free Software is Free by license, and that is why I prefer to use it. But to be Free, one must give Freedom of Choice to others - Freedom to choose Free Software or otherwise.

What a load of rubbish. This is off topic, I do not think it is reasonable to continue this thread.

I am assisting this list, as a graphic designer, to help GIMP outperform Photoshop and, hopefully, become the preferred tool for graphic design. But, as I've already said, GIMP, Sodipodi and Inkscape (which I downloaded yesterday) are really not there yet. GIMP is very, very close - but crashes easily. Sodipodi and Inkscape are nowhere near.

I've already cited the list of applications I use - I brought them to this list in order to help the list understand the needs of a graphic designer.

Mr. Grant then suggested that I 'don't use GIMP at all'.

I certainly did not state that. I charge compensation at my hourly rate of £50. My solicitors will bill will be £100 per hour in addition if you do not withdraw that statement. Additionally I will report your abuse to your ISPs. Please provide the email with full headers if you wish to substantiate your quote.

Que?

Or as Madonna said, in my previous (and CC-licensed) project, 'WTF?' (I co-produced the Madonna Remix Project - see www.iriXx.org/madonna.htm).

And yes, it ends in .htm - Mr. Grant criticised me for such trivial matters as abbreviated endings.

May I ask who the manager of this list is, and how you suggest to deal with unsolicited and insulting email coming from members who do not even contribute to the list, but instead seek out new members (I suggest, primarily women) to exercise their technical 'expertise'.

Mr. Grant has chosen the wrong person to mess with, if he's trying that avenue.

But I don't like fights, and thats the purpose of this message - to make an example of a person who is so cowardly as to go behind the back of this list and criticise my efforts privately - without even reading of my contributions towards the Free Software movement.

Yet more unsubstantiated allegations, should I call my solicitor yet? Withdraw all your slurs within 48 hours if you do not wish me to take this matter further. Post your apology to this list. As you have slurred in-front of every member of this list about my good name.

An apology and retraction now will save me a lot of time; and you a lot of
money.

mC~

As you said over email, you don't like "criticism". I am unsure if being online and part of a community is a good idea for you.

I have attached our brief communications, I would not like this list to believe I was the impolite one.

They are numbered in sequence. I have not changed any of their contents after saving from Mozilla Messenger:

1_response_to_iriXx_email.txt 2_miriam_clinton.txt
3_response.txt

Please read and confirm for yourselves.

As always, Kind regards

JG

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] first impressions of GIMP 2.0 From:
"J. Grant"
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:15:59 +0100
To:
iriXx@iriXx.org, miriam@copyleftmedia.org.uk

Hello Miriam,

Your feedback about GIMP is interesting.

99% of aliens prefer Earth
--Eminem

www.iriXx.org
www.copyleftmedia.org.uk

Just had a look at both of your sites above.

I am not sure if you are aware of the problem with your website. The World Wide Web Consortium (http://www.w3c.org/) manage and control the HTML standards for the WWW. Your website does not follow the standard correctly unfortunately. This causes display problems.

Fortunately the W3C provide a free online validation engine. You can use this tool to check your HTML/XHTML/CSS is in conformance with the official standards supported by all the WWW browsers (Mozilla, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Opera, KDE Konqueror, Apple Safari etc):

http://validator.w3.org/

Then your website maintainers will be able to correct the present problems.

Also I notice you are using ".htm" for filenames. That is quite a MS-Windows specific abreviation. I wonder if would you consider using ".html" ? This is what is intended by convention. If you are worried about non 8.3 format filenames; since Win95 and WinNT all MS-Windows Operating Systems have supported standard mixed case filenames with no limit on the extension.

I hope you take this positive feedback onboard, I do not intend this to sound critical of your position.

Kind regards

Jonathan Grant

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] first impressions of GIMP 2.0 From:
copyleftmedia
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:38:48 -0700
To:
"J. Grant"

Hello Jonathon,

You know what?

While I like my site very much too, I don't like unsolicited criticism.

So you can take your essay and put it where it fits.

J. Grant wrote:

Hello Miriam,

Your feedback about GIMP is interesting.

99% of aliens prefer Earth
--Eminem

www.iriXx.org
www.copyleftmedia.org.uk

Just had a look at both of your sites above.

I am not sure if you are aware of the problem with your website. The World Wide Web Consortium (http://www.w3c.org/) manage and control the HTML standards for the WWW. Your website does not follow the standard correctly unfortunately. This causes display problems.

Fortunately the W3C provide a free online validation engine. You can use this tool to check your HTML/XHTML/CSS is in conformance with the official standards supported by all the WWW browsers (Mozilla, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Opera, KDE Konqueror, Apple Safari etc):

http://validator.w3.org/

Then your website maintainers will be able to correct the present problems.

Also I notice you are using ".htm" for filenames. That is quite a MS-Windows specific abreviation. I wonder if would you consider using ".html" ? This is what is intended by convention. If you are worried about non 8.3 format filenames; since Win95 and WinNT all MS-Windows Operating Systems have supported standard mixed case filenames with no limit on the extension.

I hope you take this positive feedback onboard, I do not intend this to sound critical of your position.

Kind regards

Jonathan Grant

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] first impressions of GIMP 2.0 From:
"J. Grant"
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:43:10 +0100
To:
miriamclinton@copyleftmedia.org.uk

Hello Miriam

You know what?

While I like my site very much too, I don't like unsolicited criticism.

I think you have misunderstood my polite diplomatic email; please read the whole of my email, including the last sentence.

So you can take your essay and put it where it fits.

That is a rather odd attitude. I had expected you to be reasonable considering you solicited the help of us on the GIMP developers list.

You sound as though you are not a real GIMP user after all with those attitude problems. Also you appear to have a very anti-CC attitude, which is rather bizarre. Either that or perhaps copyleftmedia.org.uk has been hijacked by crackers.

Please reconsider your remarks.

Kind regards

JG

------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Michael Schumacher wrote:

miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

This is completely ridiculous, especially random threats of lawsuits for typos.

Both of you, continue this discussion off-list, please! And please note that participants of a mailing lists and the mailing list itself are different things. Thanks.

My point is exactly the same as yours - I was receiving unpleasant and unsolicited mail off-list, and wished to draw such abuse of the list to the attention of the list manager. I do not want to keep receiving abuse off-list, and the best way to put this to an end, and to make such abuse of list addresses cease, was to make such practises known on-list.

However, I consider the matter dropped. If Jonathon wishes to rant on, let him do so at his discretion.

Given his behaviour, though, it has left a sour taste in my mouth about contributing to GNU projects at all, if this is the kind of response I get - unsolicited criticism of projects irrelevant to the subject at hand. If all non-programmer non-exclusive-GNU-users get this kind of treatment when they try to help port to a professional standard, and bug-test that standard - which is what we are aiming at - then GNU projects will get nowhere.

mC~

0

Carol Spears wrote:

On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 03:21:29AM -0700, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was linux-audio-dev.

i highly recommend subscribing to the new chix list, although it was set up to help females begin with linux without the fear of some of the rude answers you can get from seasoned and busy developers -- and you received some very nice email from some of the very important developers here.

it is always good, in any environment -- one you are being paid in and one you are volunteering in (it makes no difference) to see who is in charge and actually doing the work. then pay careful attention to their comments.

i dont want to lose any savvy women from the community. there is somewhat of a pact, however, to use free software from the ground up. this is very difficult as well. the purists, like richard, stop before the pixels draw into the pictures your screen displays, because technically speaking, the X Server is not free. if you are going to "copyleft" something, and your page does not work in copyleft browsers, you are not helping. not a critism, a fact.

the new chix list can be found at: http://www.linuxchix.org/ they can help you learn how to run free software. in that non-rude environment, please remember that there are several people on that list (like this one) who have been in "the design world" and "published authors" and writing computer software for a very very long time. show the respect that you would like to receive.

once in linuxchix. i left. its full of feminists who hate men.

nuff sed.

i stay subbed to the techtalk section, it was the only sane bit - interestingly, the only bit with men contributing.

sorry, you're teaching granny to suck eggs - i did this three years ago. i'm no n00b.

over and out.

mC~

i think you mis-read his series of deliberately mis-contexted letters - and i think we should stop cc'ing this rubbish now to RMS.

I made my point, I'm out of here.

Goodbye.

mC~

Jakub Friedl, adresa do konferenci wrote:

email addresses. If you have something to say, say it on-list, is my principle - don't go behind people's backs, and dont disrupt community

the principle is to stay on topic when sending messages to the list. commenting on your personal site is not this lists topic.

I don't give a monkey's whether my site conforms to w3c standards - its a personal site, and it pushes the boundaries of web art. Perhaps the W3C committee will then come to recognise my standards - that is how the progression of art and music has always worked. Theory came later.

you probably should pay more attentions to standards - if you are interested in free software. because free software browsers denpends on standards heavily. making sites non compliant to standards can make them inaccessible to people using free software (an other non free software too). however i do not know if your site is this case. i didnt check it enough. however Jonathans comment about your site was very polite and friendly and i do not get why you are so angry about it. you have the right to do your site in whatever way you choose, its visitors have the right to comment about it.

and to cite from your own site: "Please feel free to get in contact with me should you have any comments or issues which you would like to discuss."

arrived was attack - particularly from a lurker on this list who decided to pick on someone privately about an entirely irrelevant matter.

he didnt attack you at all

I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was linux-audio-dev.

there are many more girls in the GNU community and there are no problems.

You could have had the opportunity to have an artist's commentary and some assistance in developing a professional standard tool - you'll have

there are more graphics professionals on the list. it doesnt mean your comments are not needed. just do not get angry when there is no reason for it.

for your information, was an unsolicited criticism of my websites in private email, an abuse of the email features of this list).

the only abuse is this offtopic conversation without any real reason. people be please more tolerant to each other.

--- Jakub Friedl