On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 09:53:35AM +0100, David Neary wrote:

Today a few of us were talking about this on IRC, and a couple of concrete proposals came up. Well, more sandy-water proposals at the moment...

A 4th possibility to add to the mix...

4) Dublin, Ireland

5) Chemnitz, Germany

There will be "Chemnitzer Linux-Tag 2004" (Chemnitz Linux Day 2004) on 6th and 7th of March 2004.

Pros and cons: + free access to university network (incl. WLAN) - only 2 days (is this a k.o. criterion?) - I'm not sure whether there are rooms left (but I guess so) + we're planning low-cost accomodation anyway - Chemnitz isn't very easy to get to (you'd need to fly to Dresden, then go by train)
+ probably not too much to organize additionally - no idea who might sponsor the traveling costs +/- some GNOME and/or KDE people will be there

Bye, Tino.

How about we know what funding there is and how much gimp has to work with.

Or skip all that and just show up somewhere and send the bill to dsrogers? Call it faith in misinformation.

carol

Hi,

David Neary writes:

I know that there is at least one prospective sponsor who has said he will put some money (perhaps 4 figures) towards the conference - a few more like that and we will not have problems paying travel expenses (depending, of course, on the location) - 20 people at an average of about 400 euros each (does that sound right compared to last year, Sven?) means to pay everything we'd need about 8K euros. This year we'll be adding in accomodation (which we didn't have to worry too much about last year, thanks in great part to Sven and mitch, and the CCC) which could add as much as 200 euros per person to the cost.

Good that you remind me of this. I still need to publish the numbers about this years' GimpCon. I've made the accounting but I will have to summarize and anonymify it a bit before I can post it here and to the sponsors. There's also a tiny bit of money left (around 400 Euros).

Will try to get this done soon. Perhaps someone can remind me if I forget about it again...

Sven

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 03:23:47PM +0100, David Neary wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

How about we know what funding there is and how much gimp has to work with.

Or skip all that and just show up somewhere and send the bill to dsrogers? Call it faith in misinformation.

I think that we need an event before we go looking for money, though. Saying that we want sponsorship for a vague conference that we might have next year doesn't compare to asking for money for the conference we're going to have on dates X, Y and Z in Kletzenberg.

as far as i am concerned, this event and all of the other ones suggested here have already occured.

while people were struggling with real life problems and such, they were told that a presentation would be needed for consideration for a recent trip to talk about gimp with real life people.

having volunteered much of my efforts and work already, i really really didn't have time to do this again.

someone did get to go, travel and such paid for. no presentation that was shown to me.

everything outlined in this letter has already been done, perhaps several times over. then over again. then again just to be sure.

where is the money? how much is there? who are the contributers and what did they intend to get from the money.

faith shall set you free.

i have much faith in the misinformation surrounding gimp.org.

carol

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 04:56:17PM +0100, David Neary wrote:

Hi Carol,

Carol Spears wrote:

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 03:23:47PM +0100, David Neary wrote:

I think that we need an event before we go looking for money, though.

as far as i am concerned, this event and all of the other ones suggested here have already occured.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you... when I talk about an even, I mean something that we can then "sell" to people for sponsorship. That is, that we can say that we have concrete plans that we need to finance.

while people were struggling with real life problems and such, they were told that a presentation would be needed for consideration for a recent trip to talk about gimp with real life people.

I have lost you a little here - are you talking about Roman's efforts to gather resources for presentations? Or dsrogers's call for ideas on what to present at comdex? Or something else?

someone did get to go, travel and such paid for. no presentation that was shown to me.

In fairness (I think you are talking about comdex) what ORA does with their money, and who they decide to invite to an event, is outside the scope of this discussion. There are 3 or 4 GIMP people in the US, and 1 or 2 (not sure how many) went to represent the GIMP. This is completely different from organising a developers conference to outline the future of the gimp.

everything outlined in this letter has already been done, perhaps several times over. then over again. then again just to be sure.

Which letter?

where is the money? how much is there? who are the contributers and what did they intend to get from the money.

faith shall set you free.

i have much faith in the misinformation surrounding gimp.org.

I'm afraid that I have no idea what you're talking about here. Could you clarify what money you're talking about, which letter, and particularly what this has to do with the conference next year? Thanks.

My questions can all be answered very simply.

How much money is there?

Who contributed it?

For what reason was it contributed?

Please, Mr. Neary. Answer these questions, not reask your own.

carol

Hi Carol

Carol Spears writes:

My questions can all be answered very simply.

None of your questions make any sense (at least not to me).

How much money is there?

What money are you talking about?

Who contributed it?

ditto

For what reason was it contributed?

ditto

Perhaps you could try to come up with a mail that people have a chance to understand. Otherwise please try to keep out of this discussion since we risk to drift away from the actual topic which is where and when the next GIMP conference should take place.

Sven

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 05:58:33PM +0100, David Neary wrote:

Hi Carol,

I really missed the point of your last 2 mails, but here's the answers to your questions...

Carol Spears wrote:

My questions can all be answered very simply.

How much money is there?

There's lots of money. Every country makes their own. The European central bank makes billions of euros. I don't know how much money is at the disposition of the GIMP project, though. Sven said there's about 400 euros left over from the GIMP conference last Summer.

Who contributed it?

FSF Europe, ORA, FlamingText GIMP and someone else I can't remember gave us money for the last conference, of which 400 euros remains. Apple also lent us some equipment.

For what reason was it contributed?

So that we could have a conference, no strings attached...

Please, Mr. Neary. Answer these questions, not reask your own.

I really didn't understand what you were asking. I would have appreciated you clearing that up... since you didn't, I'm kind of guessing what you meant.

if i had answers to my questions, i would be able to answer yours.

the misinformation is from gimp.org. there was funding available to send someone to las vegas to represent gimp there.

a few of us were told that gimp.org would be expected to put up funding to deliver the person to the event. fans and people working for gimp had pride in the developers and the application they labored so much over and said "no funding, no interest".

turns out there was money provided.

there is not a foundation yet and we start out with different information from gimp.org and from gimp.foundation.

i am not going to explain this again. if you do not understand the problems with this situation, i don't think you should be handling it.

i don't know who the best representative is; probably not me as I am about as bruised and beaten as this life can do to me. but the people who want to go get told they need to present the presentation first for consideration. the person who went did not do such a thing. this sucks. anyone doing this should be cut off from access to anything regarding gimp immediately. there are many volunteers who have to the best of my knowledge gone without reward for a very long time.

there are presentations, then there are excellent presentations of crappy supporting software as well.

this was a complete list of money available to gimp and people wanting to contribute and their reasons to contribute?

i think not. can you give a more complete list; maybe let known some of the mail in the exchange. phone call recordings. scans of snail mail. notes taken. cookies in browsers. any thing at all that might let known what is going on with the gimp and its finances.

carol

lets take a different approach.

when you don't have the money to pay for the flight to represent the gimp at a conference or whatever the event, you won't be volunteering. i was unable to fund a flight to las vegas to represent TheGIMP; i tried to make myself available to dsrogers to help with one. i thought it was very nice that he had the money to get himself there and did not worry with little facts like that he doesn't know that much about TheGIMP and what have you. i also tried to do some things locally to see that I might be able to fund myself enough to pay for the flight to las vegas to represent TheGIMP for a crowd, large or small.

to find out that 1) the trip was funded and 2) dsrogers went without a plan of what he would say or do there. i am simply unable to explain more than this.

so here is a new question. what qualified dsrogers to attend this gimp event?

carol

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 00:11, Carol Spears wrote:

to find out that 1) the trip was funded and 2) dsrogers went without a plan of what he would say or do there. i am simply unable to explain more than this.

We didn't know that the trip was funded before Dan arrived in Vegas.

What makes you think that Dan did not have a plan of what he would say or do there?

so here is a new question. what qualified dsrogers to attend this gimp event?

Dan offered to represent The GIMP at COMDEX even though he had to pay for the trip and the stay himself. I have no knowledge of other people offering this. Since GIMPCon 2003 Dan has also been actively working on making The GIMP Foundation a reality, an assignment that requires just the kind of knowledge I think would fit in very well with the visitors at COMDEX. I think Dan it very well qualified to represent The GIMP there.

What qualifies you to represent The GIMP?

./Brix

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 03:11:03PM -0800, Carol Spears wrote:

lets take a different approach.

when you don't have the money to pay for the flight to represent the gimp at a conference or whatever the event, you won't be volunteering. i was unable to fund a flight to las vegas to represent TheGIMP; i tried to make myself available to dsrogers to help with one. i thought it was very nice that he had the money to get himself there and did not worry with little facts like that he doesn't know that much about TheGIMP and what have you. i also tried to do some things locally to see that I might be able to fund myself enough to pay for the flight to las vegas to represent TheGIMP for a crowd, large or small.

to find out that 1) the trip was funded and 2) dsrogers went without a plan of what he would say or do there. i am simply unable to explain more than this.

so here is a new question. what qualified dsrogers to attend this gimp event?

To clear things up, O'Reilly only paid for the hotel, and that's only after it was made clear to them that nobody would come to represent GIMP unless hotel was covered. What qualified dsrogers was that he lives close enough to Vegas to drive there in a reasonable amount of time, precisely because there weren't funds for airfare.

They also didn't even provide computer hardware. It didn't really seem like they allocated a whole lot of funds in general, or really think that there actually are still major free software projects that don't have corporate backing. Chalk it up to them doing something new at the last minute I guess.

-Yosh

Hi,

Who contributed it?

FSF Europe, ORA, FlamingText GIMP and someone else I can't remember gave us money for the last conference, of which 400 euros remains. Apple also lent us some equipment.

Please let me get things straight on the fundings for the GIMP Developers Conference this summer. Dave confused a few things here.

The by far largest contribution came from the Free Software Foundation. Not the FSF Europe as Dave said above, but from the FSF. The FSF also paid all travel costs for the last GIMP conference we had three years ago.

Other sponsors for this year's conference were O'Reilly Germany and MacGimp. Gregory Cameron from Flaming Text also sent some money that we used to print T-Shirts for everyone attending as well as for a few people that helped with the GimpTent. We even printed a few more shirts and made a few bucks selling them at the Camp.

Wacom sent a couple of tablets that we had to return after the event and the CCC gave us a G4 plus monitor to use. This computer came from some equipment that Apple(?) lent the CCC for the Camp. That was a welcomed addition since we lost one PC on transport from convergence, the employer of Mitch and me.

These fundings alone wouldn't have been sufficient to pay for travel costs and the expenses we had for the tent and other equipment. Fortunately there was some money that The GIMP got when receiving the Linux New Media Awards 2000. This and the fact that not everyone we planned for could actually show up in Berlin caused the fact that there's now some money left. This money will help whoever organizes the next conference.

Sven

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:34AM +0100, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 00:11, Carol Spears wrote:

to find out that 1) the trip was funded and 2) dsrogers went without a plan of what he would say or do there. i am simply unable to explain more than this.

We didn't know that the trip was funded before Dan arrived in Vegas.

What makes you think that Dan did not have a plan of what he would say or do there?

dan did when i asked him.

so here is a new question. what qualified dsrogers to attend this gimp event?

Dan offered to represent The GIMP at COMDEX even though he had to pay for the trip and the stay himself. I have no knowledge of other people offering this. Since GIMPCon 2003 Dan has also been actively working on making The GIMP Foundation a reality, an assignment that requires just the kind of knowledge I think would fit in very well with the visitors at COMDEX. I think Dan it very well qualified to represent The GIMP there.

What qualifies you to represent The GIMP?

nothing.

what qualifies you to ask me this?

carol

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:34AM +0100, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 00:11, Carol Spears wrote:

What qualifies you to represent The GIMP?

excuse me, my last reply was fairly rude.

this is what qualifies me to represent TheGIMP. i latched onto a project with a poor girl who was in over her head. i said no to everything she said until she asked me to stop that and then i said yes to everything. then i quit because it wasn't fun anymore. when a chance came up to get cvs access to all of the other projects, i used this lame project to get this chance. then i continued to insult the original girl i offered to "help".

oh wait, this is what you did. sorry. i am trying to think of what special interests qualify me to represent TheGIMP and all i can think of is ways other people have used to get things from me.

thanks for asking this question. anymore questions?

carol

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 08:24, Carol Spears wrote:

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:34AM +0100, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:

On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 00:11, Carol Spears wrote:

What qualifies you to represent The GIMP?

excuse me, my last reply was fairly rude.

this is what qualifies me to represent TheGIMP. i latched onto a project with a poor girl who was in over her head. i said no to everything she said until she asked me to stop that and then i said yes to everything. then i quit because it wasn't fun anymore. when a chance came up to get cvs access to all of the other projects, i used this lame project to get this chance. then i continued to insult the original girl i offered to "help".

oh wait, this is what you did. sorry. i am trying to think of what special interests qualify me to represent TheGIMP and all i can think of is ways other people have used to get things from me.

thanks for asking this question. anymore questions?

No, that pretty much answers my question. Thank you.

./Brix