Hi everybody,

this all seems to become a more and more controversial discussion. But, IMO, argueing more and more heatedly brings us to nowhere.

I can fully understand all developers who care about preventing data loss. I do care too.

I can fully understand all users who get used to the 'traditional way'. I got used to it too.

So here's what I did.

I've written a patch which tries to prevent data loss as far as possible but still gives you some of the traditional behavior back. A binary package can be downloaded (Mac OS X only with all previously included 3rd party plugins)

This is the new behavior

a) Non-XCF non-JPEG images with only 1 layer can be saved via 'File - Save' with the original file format. The dirty flag is cleaned and so there's no dialog about unsaved changes if you close it after saving.

After exporting them, the image title and file name is not changed, so that you can repeatedly save it as long as there is only 1 layer.

This is basically the same as 'Overwrite'

b) For all other images - images with 2 or more layers, JPEGs, XCF, newly created ones - nothing is changed. Saving them will create a XCF

c) Save as / Export / Export to / Overwrite are not changed.

This should prevent data loss as far as possible while still allowing the most mentioned user scenario: opening - destructive editing in place - saving.

Feel free to try it to see it in action, hoping this will help to settle the quarrel.

The patch is attached. Here's the download link: http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/project/gimponosx/GIMP%20Mountain%20Lion/Gimp-2.8.2-savex-MountainLion.dmg

Regards Simone Karin

On 23.11.2012, at 08:44, Alberto Mardegan wrote:

Why are you excluding JPEG files? That is the most commonly used format by photographers, among whom are most of the users who dislike the new behaviour.

I excluded JPEG mostly because I wanted to calm down developers and I shared their concerns about JPEG being a lossy file format....

So, I'm afraid that your proposed change wouldn't help them (certainly not me).

... but the longer I think about this issue, the more I agree with you. JPEG is in fact the most common used format by photographers (well, besides shooting RAW). So I'll change my patch and build a new version which will allow all non-XCF files with only one layer to be saved via File - Save.

Regards Simone Karin=

On 23.11.2012, at 09:50, "Michael Schumacher" wrote:

Von: Simone Karin Lehmann

a) Non-XCF non-JPEG images with only 1 layer can be saved via 'File - Save' with the original file format. The dirty flag is cleaned and so there's no dialog about unsaved changes if you close it after saving.

After exporting them, the image title and file name is not changed, so that you can repeatedly save it as long as there is only 1 layer.

This is basically the same as 'Overwrite'

This moves the debate to a later date, when every filter and operation used on an image will have become an op in a graph.

Will "the image has only one layer" still be a viable criterion at that time?

From a developers point of view certainly not. From a users point of view, IMO, yes.

Having the user scenario in mind which I wanted to address with this patch 'opening - destructive editing in place - saving' is identical to 'opening - gegl op editing - saving - loosing the gegl graph'.

Whereas if an image has more than one layer it's far more evident that one wants to work non-destructive. So the criterion 'one layer nonXCF' is IMO still suitable to allow a destructive workflow.

Anyway, you can't totally prevent users from data loss as long as you support non-XCF formats and offer Export / Overwrite.

IMO it's all about finding a trade-off between 'restrictions to prevent data loss' and 'allowing common user scenarios'.

Regards Simone Karin

Am 23.11.2012 um 13:38 schrieb Simone Karin Lehmann:

... but the longer I think about this issue, the more I agree with you. JPEG is in fact the most common used format by photographers (well, besides shooting RAW). So I'll change my patch and build a new version which will allow all non-XCF files with only one layer to be saved via File - Save.

... and here's the new patch which let you "save" JPEG too.

And the download link for the binary (Mac OS X only): http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/project/gimponosx/GIMP%20Mountain%20Lion/Gimp-2.8.2-savex2-MountainLion.dmg

Regards Simone Karin

... and here's the new patch which let you "save" JPEG too.

sorry, I forgot to attach it :-(

Here it is now.

Simone Karin

Am 23.11.2012 um 13:53 schrieb Tobias Oelgarte:

Could we not just change the behaviour of "save as" if the user sets an option (global option) that he wants to use the old style, unsafe solution at his own risk? So everyone can choose what he likes.

... I've made the patch a configurable option. Yu can switch it on or off in GIMP's Preferences -> Environment -> Saving Images. -> "Force to save only in XCF image format".

Here's the download link (Mac OS X only). http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/project/gimponosx/GIMP%20Mountain%20Lion/Gimp-2.8.2-savex3-MountainLion.dmg

The patch is attached Maybe someone can build a patched GIMP on the other platforms.