On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 22:02 -0600, Clayton Walker wrote:

Hello, and sorry for the wait!
Here's a brand new build of Gimp for osx, directly from the 2.8.2 tarball. I have included python and theme support, and it was built using jhbuild and gtk-mac-bundler.
I have included no plugins, as they tend to quickly increase the size of the gimp application.

Please report all bugs to the bug tracker, and have fun!

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/942685/gimp-2.8.2-dmg-1.dmg

If someone could just mirror that on the gimp ftp website, or upload it to sourceforge or something, that would be great. Thanks!

Great! :)

I have uploaded it to ftp.gimp.org and updated the download page on www.gimp.org.

Thanks Clayton for the effort to make this happen!

Regards, --mitch

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Clayton Walker wrote:

Hello, and sorry for the wait!
Here's a brand new build of Gimp for osx, directly from the 2.8.2 tarball. I have included python and theme support, and it was built using jhbuild and gtk-mac-bundler.

Is that a native, no X11 build?

I have included no plugins, as they tend to quickly increase the size of the gimp application.

You mean native plugins or 3rd party?

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Tue, 2012-08-28 at 12:12 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Clayton Walker wrote:

Hello, and sorry for the wait!
Here's a brand new build of Gimp for osx, directly from the 2.8.2 tarball. I have included python and theme support, and it was built using jhbuild and gtk-mac-bundler.

Is that a native, no X11 build?

native

I have included no plugins, as they tend to quickly increase the size of the gimp application.

You mean native plugins or 3rd party?

3rd parts, all native plugins are there

--mitch

You might want to come to irc quickly, we some other fixes for you :)

On Tue, 2012-08-28 at 11:27 -0600, Clayton Walker wrote:

Someone asked if svg support was no longer supported. I fixed that and have included svg support in my new build, but I won't be upgrading/fixing any more import/export features until 2.8.4, as I don't want to spam the ftp website and this mailing list. Only deal-breakers will warrant new releases.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/942685/gimp-2.8.2-dmg-2.dmg

NOTE: This only fixes svg support.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Clayton Walker wrote:

I should be able to make 3rd party plugin packs available for download soon.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 3:42 AM, Michael Natterer wrote:

On Tue, 2012-08-28 at 12:12 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Clayton Walker wrote:

Hello, and sorry for the wait!
Here's a brand new build of Gimp for osx, directly from the 2.8.2

tarball.

I have included python and theme support, and it was built using

jhbuild and

gtk-mac-bundler.

Is that a native, no X11 build?

native

I have included no plugins, as they tend to quickly increase the size

of the

gimp application.

You mean native plugins or 3rd party?

3rd parts, all native plugins are there

--mitch

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Am 28.08.2012 um 10:08 schrieb Michael Natterer :

On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 22:02 -0600, Clayton Walker wrote:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/942685/gimp-2.8.2-dmg-1.dmg

If someone could just mirror that on the gimp ftp website, or upload it to sourceforge or something, that would be great. Thanks!

Great! :)

I have uploaded it to ftp.gimp.org and updated the download page on www.gimp.org.

Thanks Clayton for the effort to make this happen!

Regards, --mitch

aha, so I'm kicked out.

Why without prior notice, after four years I've maintained the GIMP builds for Mac OS X? Why has nobody asked me why I didn't build a, as you call it, 'native' version? Do you really think I wasn't able to build a version which doesn't depend on X11?

It's never been about building, that's quite easy. It's all about having a well working version of GIMP.

The now official Mac build still has the usability glitches, which prevented me to release such a version of GIMP: plugin dialogs pop up behind the main windows.

Oh, BTW, the color picker doesn't work well, screenshots fail, no support for scanners or digital cameras, the help system doesn't work, even accessing the online manual fails. OTOH, pressure sensitivity for graphic tablets seems to be fixed. (where can I get the source code patches? I can't find them in git.)

But, back to the main topic. What's the advantage of a so called 'native' build? The menu bar at the top? Not using X11? From this point of view, even most Linux versions aren't native. Or does a 'native' version magically solve all kind of problems? Is it about toolkits or software layers? Is GTK+ native and XQuartz not? Is the cairo quartz backend a native OS X feature or just another kind of software layer between the application and the OS X graphical libraries and routines?

IMO a native version of an application is more than only the use of a specific toolkit or software layer. IMO a native application should use standard native functionality. And yes, the menu bar at the top is one. But does your 'native' version use the native OS X file dialog, the native print functionality and dialogs, or does it use native ColorSync. No. Or new security features like Gatekeeper. No.

And even further, having your targeted user audience in mind, the official build lacks functionality Mac users got used to in the past years: a set of plugins offering advanced photo retousching and workflow, locally installable user manuals, support for various OS versions and architectures.

Anyway, now that you're providing an official Mac version of GIMP, I'm quite sure that you will give all of these to your Mac users soon, or point them to resources where they can easily get it.

Finally, although I'm very disappointed about the current situation, I had a great time being part of the open source community and I'd like to say thanks to all of you for all your lovely mails and your supportive feedback I've received from all over the world in the past few years. Thank you.

Now, dear GIMP team, ...

so long, and thanks for all the fish.

Simone Karin Lehmann http://gimp.lisanet.de

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Simone Karin Lehmann wrote:

Simone,

First of all, you have my word of honor (such as is left of it) that nobody was targeting to kick you out.

Most of development talks happen on IRC. It's where we make decisions. It so happened that the new contributor was around on the channel to solve his issues with building a native version, and before we knew he started banging out patches hand over fist.

Now, onto the matter.

But, back to the main topic. What's the advantage of a so called 'native' build? The menu bar at the top? Not using X11? From this point of view, even most Linux versions aren't native. Or does a 'native' version magically solve all kind of problems? Is it about toolkits or software layers? Is GTK+ native and XQuartz not? Is the cairo quartz backend a native OS X feature or just another kind of software layer between the application and the OS X graphical libraries and routines?

IMO a native version of an application is more than only the use of a specific toolkit or software layer. IMO a native application should use standard native functionality. And yes, the menu bar at the top is one. But does your 'native' version use the native OS X file dialog, the native print functionality and dialogs, or does it use native ColorSync. No. Or new security features like Gatekeeper. No.

While I agree that more work has to be done to make GIMP more native on OSX, an official no X11 build is a first major step for wider adoption of the application. People have been asking for that for a long, long time, and even refusing to install X11-dependent version.

And even further, having your targeted user audience in mind, the official build lacks functionality Mac users got used to in the past years: a set of plugins offering advanced photo retousching and workflow, locally installable user manuals, support for various OS versions and architectures.

This is something Clayton was interested to work on.

Personally I'd like to see a _team_ of Mac contributors. Seeing one important community member (you) go away because the other happened to be in the right time in the right place sounds like communication breakdown to me. I'd rather avoid that.

Whatever your final decision is, I'm thankful for the support you provided to our Mac users.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 22:57 +0200, Simone Karin Lehmann wrote:

Am 28.08.2012 um 10:08 schrieb Michael Natterer :

On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 22:02 -0600, Clayton Walker wrote:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/942685/gimp-2.8.2-dmg-1.dmg

If someone could just mirror that on the gimp ftp website, or upload it to sourceforge or something, that would be great. Thanks!

Great! :)

I have uploaded it to ftp.gimp.org and updated the download page on www.gimp.org.

Thanks Clayton for the effort to make this happen!

Regards, --mitch

aha, so I'm kicked out.

No you are not, this was never anyone's intention.

I have put the links to your installers back now, removing them was neither friendly nor smart, sorry for that.

About the general issue: Clayton came to IRC and offered to work on a native build. Having such a build was a goal for a long time, and we will never fix the remaining issued without finally going forward by releasing one.

This was not in any way meant as a hostile move against you, we always appreciated your work, and still do.

The issue is probably that most stuff takes place on IRC, so this "just happened". Developer time on GIMP is very limited, and the issue of a native build was just not pressing enough to publically ask for help on gimp-developer, and the help on IRC came without any effort.

Again, we would really like you to stay with the GIMP community, and perhaps even come to IRC so we can work on proper OSX packages together.

It would really suck to lose a valuable hacker over such an unintentional incident.

Regards, --Mitch

Why without prior notice, after four years I've maintained the GIMP builds for Mac OS X? Why has nobody asked me why I didn't build a, as you call it, 'native' version? Do you really think I wasn't able to build a version which doesn't depend on X11?

It's never been about building, that's quite easy. It's all about having a well working version of GIMP.

The now official Mac build still has the usability glitches, which prevented me to release such a version of GIMP: plugin dialogs pop up behind the main windows.

Oh, BTW, the color picker doesn't work well, screenshots fail, no support for scanners or digital cameras, the help system doesn't work, even accessing the online manual fails. OTOH, pressure sensitivity for graphic tablets seems to be fixed. (where can I get the source code patches? I can't find them in git.)

But, back to the main topic. What's the advantage of a so called 'native' build? The menu bar at the top? Not using X11? From this point of view, even most Linux versions aren't native. Or does a 'native' version magically solve all kind of problems? Is it about toolkits or software layers? Is GTK+ native and XQuartz not? Is the cairo quartz backend a native OS X feature or just another kind of software layer between the application and the OS X graphical libraries and routines?

IMO a native version of an application is more than only the use of a specific toolkit or software layer. IMO a native application should use standard native functionality. And yes, the menu bar at the top is one. But does your 'native' version use the native OS X file dialog, the native print functionality and dialogs, or does it use native ColorSync. No. Or new security features like Gatekeeper. No.

And even further, having your targeted user audience in mind, the official build lacks functionality Mac users got used to in the past years: a set of plugins offering advanced photo retousching and workflow, locally installable user manuals, support for various OS versions and architectures.

Anyway, now that you're providing an official Mac version of GIMP, I'm quite sure that you will give all of these to your Mac users soon, or point them to resources where they can easily get it.

Finally, although I'm very disappointed about the current situation, I had a great time being part of the open source community and I'd like to say thanks to all of you for all your lovely mails and your supportive feedback I've received from all over the world in the past few years. Thank you.

Now, dear GIMP team, ...

so long, and thanks for all the fish.

Simone Karin Lehmann http://gimp.lisanet.de

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gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
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Am 31.08.2012 um 22:46 schrieb Michael Natterer:

No you are not, this was never anyone's intention.

I have put the links to your installers back now, removing them was neither friendly nor smart, sorry for that.

About the general issue: Clayton came to IRC and offered to work on a native build. Having such a build was a goal for a long time, and we will never fix the remaining issued without finally going forward by releasing one.

This was not in any way meant as a hostile move against you, we always appreciated your work, and still do.

The issue is probably that most stuff takes place on IRC, so this "just happened". Developer time on GIMP is very limited, and the issue of a native build was just not pressing enough to publically ask for help on gimp-developer, and the help on IRC came without any effort.

Again, we would really like you to stay with the GIMP community, and perhaps even come to IRC so we can work on proper OSX packages together.

It would really suck to lose a valuable hacker over such an unintentional incident.

Regards, --Mitch

Now that a few days are over since I first posted here and after I've read your answers - Alexandre, Clayton and Mitch - I can now see that it wasn't your intention and that it happened just accidentally while everybody was waiting for a native version to finally arrive.

So I want to apologize for somehow overreacting in my posting under the, now that I can see, wrong impression of being dropped. Sorry.

And thank you, that you've put the link to my site back online.

If you don't mind and to show you that I still want to contribute to the GIMP community I've hacked on the sources and found a workaround for the bug which let plugin dialogs pop up behind the main windows. (well, it's more like a dirty hack, but it works quite well) I've attached the patch.

And I've compiled a native version for Mountain Lion and put it online. All plugins I've included in the past are still there and the user manual installers work too. G'MIC is included as well. Builds for Lion and SnowLeopard with support for 32 bit architectures will follow soon. And I'll try to compile it for PPC Macs too.

So, if you don't mind, maybe you could mention on your download page, that the builds on GIMP on OS X are now native too.

Finally, if you still want, I'll be back.

Regards Simone

BTW, I'll update my SVN repo in the next few days, so that you can take a look at all patches I've made to GIMP and other sources.

Hi Simone,

first of all thank you for your build. Unfortunately I don't have 10.8 (yet) to run your native version ;-( BTW: can you report that/whether 10.8 runs stable?

I've hacked on the sources and found a workaround for the bug which let plugin dialogs pop up behind the main windows. (well, it's more like a dirty hack, but it works quite well) I've attached the patch.

thank you!
Can somebody integrate this into the native build for OS X older than 10.8 and the Windows build, please? I'm willing to test and report back. We could perhaps close the bugs #678359, #676709, #677765 and #360106 then.

Finally, if you still want, I'll be back.

Of course we want ;-)

Kind regards,

Sven

Hi Sven,

Am 02.09.2012 um 15:52 schrieb scl :

Hi Simone,

first of all thank you for your build. Unfortunately I don't have 10.8 (yet) to run your native version ;-( BTW: can you report that/whether 10.8 runs stable?

IMO 10.8 runs better than Lion, somehow more smooth. It's worth to update.

I've hacked on the sources and found a workaround for the bug which let plugin dialogs pop up behind the main windows. (well, it's more like a dirty hack, but it works quite well) I've attached the patch.

thank you!
Can somebody integrate this into the native build for OS X older than 10.8 and the Windows build, please? I'm willing to test and report back. We could perhaps close the bugs #678359, #676709, #677765 and #360106 then.

aarrgghh, I've sent a temporarily disabled version of the patch. Sorry. (I should really take some time to relax after hacking the last few days ...) I've attached the working one.

The patch is OS X specific and won't run on Windows, although the basic approach should work there too.

#678359 and #676709 are adressed by this patch, although there's still some focus issue with scripts. I'll try to fix this too. (... I don't know GIMP's sources in detail. Could you point me to the files / functions where script dialogs get created and run, please? )

Simone

I have not seen this happen on Windows and so don't think a patch is needed for Windows.

On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Simone Karin Lehmann wrote:

Hi Sven,

Am 02.09.2012 um 15:52 schrieb scl :

Hi Simone,

first of all thank you for your build. Unfortunately I don't have 10.8 (yet) to run your native version ;-( BTW: can you report that/whether 10.8 runs stable?

IMO 10.8 runs better than Lion, somehow more smooth. It's worth to update.

I've hacked on the sources and found a workaround for the bug which let plugin dialogs pop up behind the main windows. (well, it's more like a dirty hack, but it works quite well) I've attached the patch.

thank you!
Can somebody integrate this into the native build for OS X older than 10.8 and the Windows build, please? I'm willing to test and report back. We could perhaps close the bugs #678359, #676709, #677765 and #360106 then.

aarrgghh, I've sent a temporarily disabled version of the patch. Sorry. (I should really take some time to relax after hacking the last few days ...) I've attached the working one.

The patch is OS X specific and won't run on Windows, although the basic approach should work there too.

#678359 and #676709 are adressed by this patch, although there's still some focus issue with scripts. I'll try to fix this too. (... I don't know GIMP's sources in detail. Could you point me to the files / functions where script dialogs get created and run, please? )

Simone

-- Stay hungry. Stay foolish.

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Why without prior notice, after four years I've maintained the GIMP builds for Mac OS X? Why has nobody asked me why I didn't build a, as you call it, 'native' version? Do you really think I wasn't able to build a version which doesn't depend on X11?

I would still be very interested in a X11-build for Mac OSX. I *really* want the UI and all key mappings to be the same both for Linux and Mac. (No flame war please... :-)

So please, please, continue building the X11-version of Gimp for OSX!