Bump.
I'd love to know the answer to this too...

And maybe an experienced developer could write an article about their inference of the product vision, which would prove to be helpful for new developers. Somehow those 6 lines seem too abstract to me.

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:43 AM, gfxuser wrote:

Hi,

the last thread reminded me of a question, which I had for some longer and I couldn't find the right answer yet: Who is the targeted audience of GIMP?

Reading the product vision and the document 'GIMP 2.8 understanding UI changes' I don't see a clear definition of that, but only two groups: artists and scientists. Where are the non-professional artists and spare time enthusiasts? I'm also missing a clearer definition of the expected experience level. Only professionals seem to be addressed. Are the other people not targeted? Clearing this as a part of the product vision would be a big help to avoid misunderstandings.

Best regards,

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On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:13 AM, gfxuser wrote:

Hi,

the last thread reminded me of a question, which I had for some longer and I couldn't find the right answer yet:
Who is the targeted audience of GIMP?

1) http://blog.mmiworks.net/2006/11/creating-user-scenarios-with-gimpteam.html

"In the five days before this weekend, Ellen and Kamila had been gathering vital raw material by performing workplace observation. Half a dozen professionals in the field of photography and graphic design were interviewed and observed on the job. These participants had been selected based on the GIMP product vision."

2) http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/User_Scenarios

3) http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Interview_Partners

Does it help?

Personally I don't expect every single job out there to be listed. CG industry seems to create a new kind of job every year, for instance.

Reading the product vision and the document 'GIMP 2.8 understanding UI changes' I don't see a clear definition of that, but only two groups: artists and scientists. Where are the non-professional artists and spare time enthusiasts? I'm also missing a clearer definition of the expected experience level. Only professionals seem to be addressed. Are the other people not targeted? Clearing this as a part of the product vision would be a big help to avoid misunderstandings.

This would be tricky. People can use professional workflows and not be paid for the work they do.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

There are a couple of user scenarios that are not on the list, that I hope can be included. These are:

- Creating original art from scratch (basically drawing and painting...this is mainly what I use GIMP for). Actually, it works pretty nicely for this as is...but it would be nice to see it included anyway. :)
- Creating textures for 3D (for games or film). This is in many ways a lot like creating original art from found images with a few differences. Such as creating tileable textures, exporting different passes (color, bump, spec maps etc.), and warping images to match UV's. Taken to the extreme it would include painting directly on 3D models, but I think that would be outside the scope of what GIMP is.

Cheers,

Ragnar

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:13 AM, gfxuser wrote:

Hi,

the last thread reminded me of a question, which I had for some longer and I couldn't find the right answer yet:
Who is the targeted audience of GIMP?

1) http://blog.mmiworks.net/2006/11/creating-user-scenarios-with-gimpteam.html

"In the five days before this weekend, Ellen and Kamila had been gathering vital raw material by performing workplace observation. Half a dozen professionals in the field of photography and graphic design were interviewed and observed on the job. These participants had been selected based on the GIMP product vision."

2) http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/User_Scenarios

3) http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Interview_Partners

Does it help?

Personally I don't expect every single job out there to be listed. CG industry seems to create a new kind of job every year, for instance.

Reading the product vision and the document 'GIMP 2.8 understanding UI changes' I don't see a clear definition of that, but only two groups: artists and scientists. Where are the non-professional artists and spare time enthusiasts? I'm also missing a clearer definition of the expected experience level. Only professionals seem to be addressed. Are the other people not targeted? Clearing this as a part of the product vision would be a big help to avoid misunderstandings.

This would be tricky. People can use professional workflows and not be paid for the work they do.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
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gfxuser wrote:

the last thread reminded me of a question, which I had for some longer and I couldn't find the right answer yet: Who is the targeted audience of GIMP?

since I am used to doing a briefing on this, for GIMP design projects and also recently the start of a university usability surveying project, I thought I could write some of that down:

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture

Beautiful. Clear.

Is *speed* really inferred from the vision?

tools get out of the way of getting things done and allow for accelerating the workflow

This talks of a *non obstructive interface*, which appeals to me, but how is speed a necessity?

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 7:07 PM, peter sikking wrote:

gfxuser wrote:

the last thread reminded me of a question, which I had for some longer

and I couldn't find the right answer yet:

Who is the targeted audience of GIMP?

since I am used to doing a briefing on this, for GIMP design projects and also recently the start of a university usability surveying project, I thought I could write some of that down:

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture

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On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Srihari Sriraman wrote:

Is speed reallyinferredfrom the vision?

tools get out of the way of getting things done and allow for accelerating the workflow

This talks of a nonobstructive interface, which appeals to me, but how is speed a necessity?

This is called a turn-round. It's how fast you can finish a job for one client to switch to the next one.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

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Alexandre wrote:

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Srihari Sriraman wrote:

Is speed really inferred from the vision?

tools get out of the way of getting things done and allow for accelerating the workflow

This talks of a non obstructive interface, which appeals to me, but how is speed a necessity?

This is called a turn-round. It's how fast you can finish a job for one client to switch to the next one.

yes, production. deliver 300 files, before lunch.

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture

Makes sense; speed is necessary.

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:18 PM, peter sikking wrote:

Alexandre wrote:

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Srihari Sriraman wrote:

Is speed really inferred from the vision?

tools get out of the way of getting things done and allow for

accelerating

the workflow

This talks of a non obstructive interface, which appeals to me, but how

is

speed a necessity?

This is called a turn-round. It's how fast you can finish a job for one client to switch to the next one.

yes, production. deliver 300 files, before lunch.

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
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From: gfxuser 
To: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Targeted audience of GIMP?
 
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> 
> 1)http://blog.mmiworks.net/2006/11/creating-user-scenarios-with-gimpteam.html
> 
> "In the five days before this weekend, Ellen and Kamila had been
> gathering vital raw material by performing workplace observation. Half
> a dozen professionals in the field of photography and graphic design
> were interviewed and observed on the job. These participants had been
> selected based on the GIMP product vision."
> 
> 2)http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/User_Scenarios
> 
> 3)http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Interview_Partners
> 
> Does it help?
Yes, thanks.
> Personally I don't expect every single job out there to be listed. CG
> industry seems to create a new kind of job every year, for instance.
I agree with you. I'm not in the CG industry, are you? To me it's sufficient and clearer to group them as Peter and his team already did.
>> Reading the product vision and the document 'GIMP 2.8 understanding UI
>> changes' I don't see a clear definition of that, but only two groups:
>> artists and scientists. Where are the non-professional artists and spare
>> time enthusiasts? I'm also missing a clearer definition of the expected
>> experience level. Only professionals seem to be addressed.
>> Are the other people not targeted? Clearing this as a part of the product
>> vision would be a big help to avoid misunderstandings.
> This would be tricky. People can use professional workflows and not be
> paid for the work they do.
In German we have the idiom of 'unprofitable art' and unfortunately this says a lot about payment for creatives for long ;-(  It's understandable, that they'd like to have an affordable tool. I'd like to point out, that I don't see the less professional users targeted, like spare time enthusiasts They are appearantly a big part of the GIMP community, too. Like badly payed creatives not everybody of them can afford buying or renting an expensive commercial product. So I personally would regret if they are not targeted anymore.

IMHO many usability complaints are based on some ambiguities. Either the GIMP team didn't have a clear notion in the past who the users are and developed an allrounder, which became a hard to ride horse (I'm constructive-minded). Or otherwise the less professional users are not targeted and don't know about this - so they will feel targeted and of course feel overwhelmed by GIMP's complexity (To be fair: it's similar with Photoshop.) That's why I urge for clarifying this in the product vision.

Why is painting from scratch not a top level part of the product vision? Are we going to miss someone? AFAIK there are already many other (semi-)professional affordable photo tools for Linux (RawTherapee, Darktable, Digikam, Photivo?, AfterShot, Lightzone etc.) but there seem to be much less high-end painting apps (MyPaint, Krita?, Pinta?). Wouldn't there be a disbalance? Alexia, where are you  ;-) ?

Best regards,

grafxuser

I was a fairly accomplished user of Photoshop before I started using Linux and the GIMP.  I discoverd that the learing curve for using the GIMP is about the same as it was for learning Photoshop. Knowing Photoshop well prior to using the GIMP was both a blessing and a curse. I knew what I wanted to do, but had a lot of trouble with The GIMP because it was just enough like Photohsop to be confusing.  I finally gave in and bought a couple of books, they were a long time in coming, and finally have gotten the same mastery over the GIMP that I had over Photoshop. The GIMP does not do as many things as Photoshop does, but that is not really an issue for me, given that I no longer do professional artwork the way I was doing. I do believe however, that if I were a professional, I would be on the Mac OSX or Windows using Photoshop. There is just enough difference in the two packages to give Photoshop the edge for professional artists.

gfxuser wrote:

This would be tricky. People can use professional workflows and not be paid for the work they do.

In German we have the idiom of 'unprofitable art' and unfortunately this says a lot about payment for creatives for long ;-( It's understandable, that they'd like to have an affordable tool.

I have updated the briefing to deal with the professionals chestnut. It is more useful to define that GIMP is for intense use.

that gets us a lot further.

I see from the last sentence above that also a sentence or two needs to be added about GIMP not being a zero-cost copy/replacement of an expensive piece of commercial software.

correct me if I am wrong, but GIMP being free as in beer is a side effect of GIMP being free as in speech, which is the open source spirit why contributors contribute.

Why is painting from scratch not a top level part of the product vision? Are we going to miss someone? AFAIK there are already many other (semi-)professional affordable photo tools for Linux (RawTherapee, Darktable, Digikam, Photivo?, AfterShot, Lightzone etc.) but there seem to be much less high-end painting apps (MyPaint, Krita?, Pinta?).

having been the moderator at both the vision sessions of GIMP and Krita, I know how very, very different both teams define what painting means for them. I also can say that the way Krita means painting is not reconcilable in one application with the way that GIMP means that one of our top goals is high-end photo manipulation.

the painting system in GIMP can be made fantastically powerful, I believe some people are working on that, and it will have the secondary effect that painting from scratch in GIMP is pretty damn good. but all the decisions about the painting system must take into account that it is simply part of the image manipulation goals of GIMP. painting is a means, not and end.

I am happy there is Krita (see their vision on their front web page), and MyPaint and more. they can kick ass in painting from scratch.

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture

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On 20/05/2012, peter sikking wrote:

correct me if I am wrong, but GIMP being ‘free as in beer’ is a side effect of GIMP being ‘free as in speech,’ which is the open source spirit why contributors contribute.

If you want to be really precise, that's the free software spirit. The open source spirit is exactly 'free as in beer'. :)