"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
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"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Hi,
I just recently purchased Wacom Intuos4 drawing pad and played around it with GIMP (Xubuntu 9.1). There were some quirks and such to get it somewhat work (well, the table is recognized out-of-box, but to set buttons, pressure and such to make something sensible was a totally different question), but that's another story.
There are some missing features, and - umh - interestingly working features in GIMp with drawing pad, so I downloaded the sources and I'm going to look, if I can correct some things by myself. First question is, of course, do you know if anyone else has worked with GIMP w/ drawing pad tools?
---
GIMP tools have "pressure" checkboxes, by which you can change what attribute is changed by pressure level. Well, there are some things:
- Many times the pressure setting is just too little. For example, if you set pressure to enlarge paintbrush size, you get almost nothing (just a little bit larger spot when pressing harder). There is a need for setting paintbrush pressure so that when you press lightly, you get very thin line (like in real paintbrush), and pressing a little bit harder makes it heavily "oversized". The normal level (matching the brush size you selected) would be used when you are pressing the pen "normally"
- You definitely need a pressure curve to a tool. Paintbrushes have different shapes, and for example airbrush would be better with inversed "cone-shape", so that the lighter you press, the larger (and lighter) is the brush, and pressing harder makes the brush smaller and the color thinner.
- Tying pressure to color is broken, it works upside-down; the more you press, the lighter is the color :)
Do you know, if anything like that is under development? I probably mess around with GIMP sources and pressure things for awhile, but if there are some others playing around with the same subject, I would appreciate to hear it :)
---
The another annoying feature with GIMp and drawing pad is that is just much too hard to make tool sets for various purposes.
I first explain how I draw with paper and colored pens, crayons, water and oil colors. When I'm drawing with color pens, I have a set of pens in my left hand to change them quickly. The situation is the same with crayons. With lead pencils, I usually have a set of them (harder and softer) in my left hand. With oil paints, I usually make a "palette" to a canvas, by bursting paint to some areas and tipping the paintbrush (or knife) in those spots; when finishing the painting, I just smear those colors to background.
I was thinking that I could implement something like that to GIMP, too, some kind of a "quick tool box" for storing predefined tool settings, and with a palette to tip a color.
GIMP tool option saving does not work how I think it should work. I saved tool settings one-by-one, with names like "ink", "crayon", "watercolor", but whenever I'm drawing and I change the tool, I need to revert it to the same set I'm drawing with.
Furthermore, tool setting reverts too much (for me), since it stores brush size and color, and whenever I change the set or tool, I need to change those.
The question is that do you know, if anyone has made some plugins or modifications for GIMP with drawing pad? What would you think, could I do those changes as plugin, or do I need to modify the GIMP core code?
Any suggestions and comments are highly welcome, thanks in advance!
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
There are some missing features, and - umh - interestingly working features in GIMp with drawing pad, so I downloaded the sources and I'm going to look, if I can correct some things by myself. First question is, of course, do you know if anyone else has worked with GIMP w/ drawing pad tools?
Hi. Please get GIMP from git. A lot of what you want is already there or at least half way there. Curves for dynamics for example. If you are seriously interested in helping out a) Fetch gimp from GIT b) join us at #gimp IRC channel.
--Alexia
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Hi,
Joined to #gimp (IRCNet, correct place?). I'm just examining that GIT thing, I have never seen it before, so it may take some time to get GIMP from there... Which version? Latest 2.7?
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Alexia Death wrote:
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
There are some missing features, and - umh - interestingly working
features
in GIMp with drawing pad, so I downloaded the sources and I'm going to
look,
if I can correct some things by myself. First question is, of course, do
you
know if anyone else has worked with GIMP w/ drawing pad tools?
Hi. Please get GIMP from git. A lot of what you want is already there or at least half way there. Curves for dynamics for example. If you are seriously interested in helping out a) Fetch gimp from GIT b) join us at #gimp IRC channel.
--Alexia
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Saturday, November 28, 2009, 19:28:42, Markus Koskimies wrote:
Joined to #gimp (IRCNet, correct place?).
Nope, GIMPNet (irc://irc.gimp.org/).
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
It seems to me that in the current git version (updated today), all the dynamic features disappeared from the options of tools like pencil or paintbrush. Or I'm not seeing them where they are?
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Alexia Death wrote:
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
There are some missing features, and - umh - interestingly working
features
in GIMp with drawing pad, so I downloaded the sources and I'm going to
look,
if I can correct some things by myself. First question is, of course, do
you
know if anyone else has worked with GIMP w/ drawing pad tools?
Hi. Please get GIMP from git. A lot of what you want is already there or at least half way there. Curves for dynamics for example. If you are seriously interested in helping out a) Fetch gimp from GIT b) join us at #gimp IRC channel.
--Alexia _______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On 11/29/09, Olivier wrote:
It seems to me that in the current git version (updated today), all the dynamic features disappeared from the options of tools like pencil or paintbrush. Or I'm not seeing them where they are?
It's new palette now.
Windows > Docks > Painting Dynamic
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On 11/29/09, Olivier wrote:
OK and thanks! Was it documented somewhere and escaped me?
Dear Olivier,
We are talking about a feature that is not even officially published, not being part of any release :) It's too early to document this change.
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/29/09, Olivier wrote:
OK and thanks! Was it documented somewhere and escaped me?
Dear Olivier,
We are talking about a feature that is not even officially published, not being part of any release :) It's too early to document this change.
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as
close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Olivier wrote:
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
Interesting point. When I was merging the dynamics branch nobody remembered the News file. Perhaps it should be updated retroactively.
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Hi,
First a possible bug report: I have Xubuntu (9.10) and Wacom Intuos4 L graphics tablet. I have problems with both GIMP and MyPaint dialogs (load/save/settings), they frequently "jam" so that they do not accept mouse (nor pen) clicks. Some dialogs work nicely all the time (like brush selections and such, both in GIMP and MyPaint). I think this is somehow related to GTK, since both of them are using that? Have anyone else reported this?
---
I found MyPaint, which suits better for creating paintings with graphic tablet. So, my suggestions ATM is that don't use too much efforts for brush dynamics; keep GIMP as image processing software, instead of painting program.
I would appreciate a seamless integration of graphics software together. There is no need for "one-fit-for-all" programs, photographers definitely need totally different kind of tools for images than painters.
GIMP does not have "artistic" brushes, MyPaint does not have image processing capabilities. MyPaint even has very scarce support for sketching and creating drawing compositions (e.g. moving and scaling things, creating compositions and perspections), and I think that there could be room besides GIMP and MyPaint for some sort of integrated sketching/composition software ("MySketch", "uSketch"). My post in MyPaint forum:
http://forum.intilinux.com/mypaint-development-and-suggestions/mypaint-and-wacom-intuos4/
I have not thought much, how to integrate these software better together, but some suggestion could be e.g.
- Common set up for input devices; keyboard shortcuts, mouse buttons (including wheel), and tablet shortcuts (and, please, make the pen buttons configurable); all in all, some sort of common "look and feel" or something.
- Using same (layered) file formats; GIMP has OpenRaster plugin, MyPaint does not have XCF plugin :(
- Some sort of "common" image file importing; that is, importing images, scaling them and storing to some layered format.
- "Open with..." buttons to software; from gimp, open the image in MyPaint (or another program), and vice versa.
- Share brushes and brush libraries between programs; predefined brush sets for photoshoppers and painters... I think that GIMP toolbox is "broken" - pen, paintbrush, airbrush, they are essentially the same tool, just with different settings. Then, selection tools, moving/rotating and cloning, they are different tools.
It would be even better, that the (running) canvas would be common to many different programs! So that you would easily edit the layers with program that would suit your needs - one for painting, another for sketching, one for post-processing, and so on.
Unfortunately I know that GIMP is an old software, and many GIMP programmers has used to its technical solutions as they are and are not very willing to change things. And, when someone develop new software, they usually select the tools and way of work based on their previous experience, and not necessarily make it easy to be integrated together. But hopefully some day I see some sort of "Paint shop" for Linux, including tools for sketching, painting and processing images...
---
Because MyPaint UI is written with Python, I think that I concentrate on that, since it is far easier to get involved with. It wouldn't be bad to change GIMP UI to Python, too, I think that writing UI with C is just... hmh... nicely said - interesting. But I'll check if I can make some development for GIMP, too.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Alexia Death wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Olivier wrote:
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
Interesting point. When I was merging the dynamics branch nobody remembered the News file. Perhaps it should be updated retroactively.
-- --Alexia
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
I would appreciate a seamless integration of graphics software together. There is no need for "one-fit-for-all" programs, photographers definitely need totally different kind of tools for images than painters.
git clone git://gitorious.org/oratools/oratools.git
Will give you ORA import/export plug-in for GIMP
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Already has that :)
Anyways, about that brush dynamics, I heard that MyPaint and GIMP has different approach to brushes, so that they are not interchangeable. But take a look to MyPaint brush values, if you have time: basically, it has curves for all the variables brush has, so that you can put velocity to change size a little bit, and pressure a little bit more. The same approach could fit GIMP, too, although it makes the editor GUI very complex :)
Furthermore, why GIMP has separate pen, brush and airbrush? Aren't they essentially the same tool, just with different settings? And write that GUI with Python, it's much quicker and easier :)
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
I would appreciate a seamless integration of graphics software together. There is no need for "one-fit-for-all" programs, photographers definitely need totally different kind of tools for images than painters.
git clone git://gitorious.org/oratools/oratools.git
Will give you ORA import/export plug-in for GIMP
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
Furthermore, why GIMP has separate pen, brush and airbrush?
With Pen you mean Pencil? Well, it's mistery to me :) Users I've spoken to want Pencil to draw rough, not smoothed lines 1px or 2px large by default and Brush - to draw smooth larger lines. Currently GIMP separates the tools, but doesn;t separate settings (it used to before, they say).
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
with Python, it's much quicker and easier :)
Why use python? Use ruby it is a lot more beautiful ;)
GEGL have bindings for both languages and more for various sketching or photo-filtering apps that potentially could be built on top.
/Øyvind K.
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 07:38 +0100, Olivier wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On 11/29/09, Olivier wrote:
> OK and thanks! Was it documented somewhere and escaped me?
Dear Olivier,
We are talking about a feature that is not even officially published,
not being part of any release :) It's too early to document this
change.
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
If you are writing a book, then you should write it about GIMP 2.6. Everything that is in GIMP 2.7 now may still change at this point, in particular any new features.
Sven
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Sven Neumann wrote:
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
If you are writing a book, then you should write it about GIMP 2.6. Everything that is in GIMP 2.7 now may still change at this point, in particular any new features.
Or plan an appendix to cover possible changes in 2.8, time/deadline permitting
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Sven Neumann wrote:
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
If you are writing a book, then you should write it about GIMP 2.6. Everything that is in GIMP 2.7 now may still change at this point, in particular any new features.
Or plan an appendix to cover possible changes in 2.8, time/deadline permitting
Alexandre
Since the book is not anticipated to be published before the Autumn of
2010, on the contrary I would very much like that it covers at least version 2.8, or still better, version 3.0. This means I'm not writing or completing chapters that deal with matters changing a lot presently: one-window or multi-window interface, brush dynamics, layer groups, color depth, color management, and so on. Am I forgetting important points subject to changes until version 3.0?
Since I intend to write a very thorough book (about 800 pages in English, about 550 in French because the publisher cannot afford more), I have a lot of work in other areas, and I can wait until things are stabilized. But I want to follow the progress as much as possible. The American publisher is No Starch, and the French one is Pearson.
Do you think this approach is sensible?
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Yes, I mean Pencil :) And Øyvind, although I have never used ruby, I think it's still better for doing UI than plain C... Or even worse, C imitating C++ (i.e. long function names, structs and many explicit type casts).
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
Furthermore, why GIMP has separate pen, brush and airbrush?
With Pen you mean Pencil? Well, it's mistery to me :) Users I've spoken to want Pencil to draw rough, not smoothed lines 1px or 2px large by default and Brush - to draw smooth larger lines. Currently GIMP separates the tools, but doesn;t separate settings (it used to before, they say).
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:38 +0200, Alexia Death wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Olivier wrote:
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
Interesting point. When I was merging the dynamics branch nobody remembered the News file. Perhaps it should be updated retroactively.
The NEWS file is updated before a release, not necessarily at the time when new features are added. So there is nothing retroactive about updating it now. But please go ahead and add whatever you think should be there. We will review it before the next release anyway.
Sven
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 19:42 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 07:38 +0100, Olivier wrote:
Of course! But since I'm writing a book about GIMP, I'm trying to get as close as possible to what will be finally published. When speaking about documentation, I was thinking to the NEWS file.
If you are writing a book, then you should write it about GIMP 2.6. Everything that is in GIMP 2.7 now may still change at this point, in particular any new features.
Just FYI.
I'm in the same boat as Olivier (even same US publisher, but different target audiences). When I wrote Artists' Guide to GIMP Effects I targeted the current release (2.2) and as soon as the book came out so did 2.4. And now it's 2.6. So, to try and stay as relevant to the released product we shoot for what we expect to be out when the book comes out, i.e. a year from now, re: 2.8. So the update to GIMP Effects is targeted at 2.8 and targeted for an early fall 2010 release. The goal is to have the book be considered relevant for at least a year, hopefully longer.
I know there are no development schedules that say 2.8 will be out then, nor what is absolutely intended to be included in 2.8, but we have no choice. We have to assume 2.8 or else the books won't be relevant. At least to reader perceptions. My book is actually designed to be relevant to any GIMP release from 2.2 on but the publisher needs people to buy the book and they often won't if they don't think it's relevant to the current release.
For me, the hardest part is screenshots of the UI. The functionality underneath can change a bit as long as the UI doesn't change much. Since I expect there may be many UI changes with 2.8 I have to put off the screenshots for as long as possible. And keep track of places where menu references may need to be updated.
Of course this isn't the developers problem, it's just something the authors have to deal with. This is just feedback on the processes we're subject to.
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On 11/30/09, Olivier wrote:
Since the book is not anticipated to be published before the Autumn of
2010, on the contrary I would very much like that it covers at least version 2.8, or still better, version 3.0.
Ah, I feel your pain :)
We published a book on GIMP in Russian which was covering 2.4 and was finished by the author exactly when 2.6 went out and then it was actually printed almost a year later :)
Alexandre
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
Hi,
First a possible bug report: I have Xubuntu (9.10) and Wacom Intuos4 L graphics tablet. I have problems with both GIMP and MyPaint dialogs (load/save/settings), they frequently "jam" so that they do not accept mouse (nor pen) clicks. Some dialogs work nicely all the time (like brush selections and such, both in GIMP and MyPaint). I think this is somehow related to GTK, since both of them are using that? Have anyone else reported this?
Sliders and such tend to jam for me too. there seem to be some serious issues in GTK with pointer handling since the clinet side windows were put in.
I found MyPaint, which suits better for creating paintings with graphic tablet.
MyPaint is a painting application. Its meant for painting so it does it well. MyPaint/GIMP have the same relation as Painter/Photoshop.
So, my suggestions ATM is that don't use too much efforts for brush dynamics; keep GIMP as image processing software, instead of painting program.
Image processing needs dynamics as much or even more than painting approach. Theres a lot of brushwork in touching up a photo or creating an image from other images. So in a way, without providing "artistic" brushes, dynamics are very important to an image processor and very much in scope.
Because MyPaint UI is written with Python, I think that I concentrate on that, since it is far easier to get involved with. It wouldn't be bad to change GIMP UI to Python, too, I think that writing UI with C is just... hmh... nicely said - interesting. But I'll check if I can make some development for GIMP, too.
If your aim is to paint then MyPaint suits your aims better.
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
I examined a little that "jamming" with mypaint, and it seems that in some circumstances, the mouse and tablet events are somehow discarded or something (they are not received to dialog message handler). Keyboard events are still received in msg handler, and e.g. X works correctly, and both xev and xidump receive events normally.
Since I have a feeling that it is somehow related to GTK, I think that my findings holds for gimp (and other gtk apps), too. I use tablet only for gimp and mypaint, and I haven't examined other gtk apps.
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean that you should not develop GIMP dynamics, just that you probably don't need to develop artistic brushes. But check out that MyPaint brush dynamics variables, that may give ideas for GIMP, too. Certainly, it would be just excellent, if GIMP and mypaint brushes would be interchangeable, maybe even a separate full featured brush editor for tuning them?
And yes, my aim is to (1) sketch pictures, then (2) paint, and then (3) make some finetunings, scaling and such. MyPaint fits for 2, GIMP for 3. GIMP is better for setting up the composition and sketching, but a little bit overweighted for that :) MyPaint lacks abilities for "scissoring" images, using grids/perspetive aids and such, which I find useful for sketching a drawing.
Maybe some point in future, there would be a bunch of programs, operating with same basic settings and file formats, so that I could easily use suitable drawing program for different purposes :)
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexia Death wrote:
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
Hi,
First a possible bug report: I have Xubuntu (9.10) and Wacom Intuos4 L graphics tablet. I have problems with both GIMP and MyPaint dialogs (load/save/settings), they frequently "jam" so that they do not acceptmouse
(nor pen) clicks. Some dialogs work nicely all the time (like brush selections and such, both in GIMP and MyPaint). I think this is somehow related to GTK, since both of them are using that? Have anyone else
reported
this?
Sliders and such tend to jam for me too. there seem to be some serious issues in GTK with pointer handling since the clinet side windows were put in.
I found MyPaint, which suits better for creating paintings with graphic tablet.
MyPaint is a painting application. Its meant for painting so it does it well. MyPaint/GIMP have the same relation as Painter/Photoshop.
So, my suggestions ATM is that don't use too much efforts for brush dynamics; keep GIMP as image processing software, instead of painting program.
Image processing needs dynamics as much or even more than painting approach. Theres a lot of brushwork in touching up a photo or creating an image from other images. So in a way, without providing "artistic" brushes, dynamics are very important to an image processor and very much in scope.
Because MyPaint UI is written with Python, I think that I concentrate on that, since it is far easier to get involved with. It wouldn't be bad to change GIMP UI to Python, too, I think that writing UI with C is just... hmh... nicely said - interesting. But I'll check if I can make some development for GIMP, too.
If your aim is to paint then MyPaint suits your aims better.
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Markus Koskimies wrote:
I examined a little that "jamming" with mypaint, ..snip.... X works correctly, and both xev and xidump receive events normally.
Since I have a feeling that it is somehow related to GTK, I think that my findings holds for gimp (and other gtk apps), too. I use tablet only for gimp and mypaint, and I haven't examined other gtk apps.
I know for certain it is a GTK issue. You may downgrading GTK in use for mypaint(GIMP from trunk must have newer, or it wont build) to something before 2.17.1 I think.
MyPaint lacks abilities for "scissoring" images, using grids/perspetive aids and such, which I find useful for sketching a drawing.
Things like that would ve useful in mypaint. Your input to development of mypaint might be useful.
Maybe some point in future, there would be a bunch of programs, operating with same basic settings and file formats, so that I could easily use suitable drawing program for different purposes :)
There already is such a set. Inkscape for vector, Gimp for photomanipulation, MyPaint for painting. Of these, inkscape seems to be the fastest developer, Gimp is the most mature and mypaint is newest member of the set. There are not that many developers with interest in digital image creation. Painting has the least amount of interested people and it shows.
Extra problem with extended devices is the lack of such devices for testing purposes. Right now I really like to have access to a a wacom device that reports stylus rotation(wheel parameter, not to be confused with tilt).
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Dialog "jamming":
I know for certain it is a GTK issue. You may downgrading GTK in use
for mypaint(GIMP from trunk must have newer, or it wont build) to something before 2.17.1 I think.
GIMP 2.7 was so fascinating that I would not like to go back to 2.6. So no question about downgrading GTK, and thus the only way is to get fixed GTK :)
There are other things in GTK, too, at least in mypaint. It ignores the "pad" device, and thus I need to configure board to send key events. I think that is just a dirty hack to make older programs to work with tablets, there must be better way in the future. The tablet has 9 buttons, and no, I don't want them to send same key presses in different programs. Depending on the program and the purpose, I would like the buttons to make different things. And:
Intuos4 has small icon displays, and an indication led besides the ring to tell the mode, and I would like the future software to use them. So, that when I change between gimp and mypaint, the icons change appropriately to tell, what happens when pressing what button ;)
Furthermore - why should pens, erasers and mouse work similarly at canvas? Why couldn't I freely program pen and mouse buttons interacting differently, when pressing them at canvas? IMO, drawing software should understand that there are different devices and they may be used for different things ;)
MyPaint lacks abilities for "scissoring" images, using grids/perspetive aids and such, which I find useful for sketching a drawing.
Things like that would ve useful in mypaint. Your input to development of mypaint might be useful.
Let's see what happens :)
Maybe some point in future, there would be a bunch of programs, operating with same basic settings and file formats, so that I could easily use suitable drawing program for different purposes :)
There already is such a set. Inkscape for vector, Gimp for photomanipulation, MyPaint for painting. Of these, inkscape seems to be the fastest developer, Gimp is the most mature and mypaint is newest member of the set.
I think there's room between these for separate art composition software, just scissors and pencil to make compositions :) And for artwork browser, keeping your creations easily accessible. And interoperation between software can never be too fluent ;)
There are not that many developers with interest in digital image creation. Painting has the least amount of interested people and it shows.
Yes, that's true, and that's why the digital image processing software should strive for simplicity (it's hard goal, yes, since keeping software simple requires work, and if there is scarce of developers, that will not happen). The easier it is to get involved, the better are the changes to have developers in the future.
Extra problem with extended devices is the lack of such devices for testing purposes. Right now I really like to have access to a a wacom device that reports stylus rotation(wheel parameter, not to be confused with tilt).
Oh, there are such, too :o But yes, developing tablet software would need testers owning tablets :)
If I cannot do anything else for GIMP, I'll try to stay one sort of tester with Intuos4 tablet.
default-gradient in gimprc
According to its man page, a user should be able to set the default-gradient property in his local gimprc. However, this setting is apparently never honored (unless the user manually edits either the contextrc file or the tool-options/paintbrush file).
It would seem that either there is no reason for the default-gradient property to be supported in gimprc or things should be amended so that the property is not always ignored. A third possibility is that I am completely off-base in my understanding of this issue -- which is why I am posting here rather than submitting a bug report.
The default-gradient should be, and is, appropriately ignored if the user has saved the tool options (either manually or automatically upon GIMP exit). Saving the tool options will create a contextrc which specifies the gradient to activated upon startup.
However, if contextrc does not exist (either never created or removed by restoring the tool options to their factory defaults in the preferences) then the active tool upon opening GIMP will be the Paintbrush. The problem is that the Paintbrush has its own hard-coded default gradient of "FG to BG (RGB)" and this gradient replaces the gimprc property because the Paintbrush tool gets activated after gimprc is loaded (and activating a "gradient-enabled" tool modifies the context's gradient).
The only way that the default-gradient property as specified in gimprc (either the user's or the one in /etc/gimp/) will ever be honored is if contextrc is manually edited to remove the 'gradient' property and so that the 'tool' property is set to something other than any of the airbrush, blend, paintbrush, pencil, or vector/path tools. As things stand, the default-gradient property in gimprc is effectly worthless.
I would propose the following options for resolving this:
* Remove the 'default-gradient' option from gimprc * Add a 'default-tool' option to gimprc (so that a tool that does not have a gradient associated with it can be specified) * Change the hard-coded, factory default for the initial tool from the paintbrush to a tool that does not have a gradient associated with it (e.g., the rectangle select tool) * Do not let a tool's gradient setting override the 'default-gradient' property set in gimprc upon startup (unless Tool Options have been saved in a previous session)
The last option would probably be the most complete solution, but also might be hardest to implement.
default-gradient in gimprc
Hi,
On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 09:41 -0500, saulgoode@flashingtwelve.brickfilms.com wrote:
* Add a 'default-tool' option to gimprc (so that a tool that does not have a gradient associated with it can be specified)
The tool selected at start-up is not hard-coded as you claim. It is a setting per input device and as such it is stored in the inputrc file.
Sven
default-gradient in gimprc
Thanks for the response. You have allowed me to resolve my problem; though I would note that the name of the applicable file is "devicerc" and that this file will only exist if the user has performed a "Save Input Device Setting Now" within the "Edit->Preferences->Input Devices" dialog.
Regards.
Quoting Sven Neumann :
Hi,
On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 09:41 -0500, saulgoode@flashingtwelve.brickfilms.com wrote:
* Add a 'default-tool' option to gimprc (so that a tool that does not have a gradient associated with it can be specified)
The tool selected at start-up is not hard-coded as you claim. It is a setting per input device and as such it is stored in the inputrc file.
Sven
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
Alexia Death wrote:
There already is such a set. Inkscape for vector, Gimp for photomanipulation, MyPaint for painting.
People keep referring to Gimp as being a photo manipulation tool. It's an image manipulation tool. Works just fine on hand drawn images as well.
Patrick
"Artistic" extensions to Gimp with (Wacom) drawing pad
HI
I am not really agree with that, for example photoshop is a Photo
manipulation program, but most of CG painters use PS to paint sketches and
final pieces . Film industry and game industry knows that. Lot of people use
only PS to paint ,so the purpose of the program is irrelevant at certain
point. Translating to free software ,of course GIMP can paint and i am
showing this with some pieces of art. I created GPS to do painting tasks
becouse i a msure that gimp can do professional tasks in this field. IT is
better than photoshop on customizable interface and developers still working
in UI and lot of features. I know both of them. You can use gimp to paint
and if we have a very good presets manager it will be lot of better than
photoshop. becouse Photoshop presets are very umcomfortable and difficult to
rearrange. Only Gimp ids good, but in fact we can use also the Gimp Painter
version which is more powerfull in painting tasks. the
smoothing,power,flow,min sclae, and other parameters. i am sure Alexia is
working hard to improve this in oficial version. and also wi will have tags
and that will be very good to manage brushes groups.
My paint is different software different idea and diferent develope. It has the most lovable brush engine that i know. and has a lot of future . Can mimic perfectly lot of techniques even better than Painter . and i am not joking. Setting right the parameters we can do all we want to do. just Awesome program. But is a baby in comparission with gimp developement. i am waiting to see the 0.8 release. will be Amazing if Martin implements the requirements.
And i want to say that we have to be very pattience. We will arrive slowly to achieve better softwares with better tools. All of us are working for that. Blender is the top one. gimp is really impressive when you study them and test. Mypaint is a promise by now. We have lot of things to do . This is a wonderful adventure becouse we are changing the way that people see the open source software. Free software is the future.
2009/12/3 Patrick Horgan
Alexia Death wrote:
There already is such a set. Inkscape for vector, Gimp for photomanipulation, MyPaint for painting.
People keep referring to Gimp as being a photo manipulation tool. It's an image manipulation tool. Works just fine on hand drawn images as well.
Patrick _______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list
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