Matt Buscemi wrote:

I would love to be able to dock all dialogs into the main GIMP window, including the toolbar. The only thing I dislike about the current interface is that there are three windows instead of one. It would be a major improvement if I could simply dock the toolbar and dialogs into the main window.

- Matt

There have been discussions about this and this feature will probably be implemented at some point.

- Martin

Matt Buscemi wrote:

It would be a major improvement if I could simply dock the toolbar and dialogs into the main window.

But what should happen if you have multiple image windows open? Having the docks attached to only one of them probably isn't very useful...

Kurt Pruenner wrote:

Matt Buscemi wrote:

It would be a major improvement if I could simply dock the toolbar and dialogs into the main window.

But what should happen if you have multiple image windows open? Having the docks attached to only one of them probably isn't very useful...

The proposed solution is a tab-based interface.

- Martin

Jakub Friedl wrote:

> But what should happen if you have multiple image windows open? Having
> the docks attached to only one of them probably isn't very useful... >
>

The proposed solution is a tab-based interface.

How can tabbed interface show more images at once? And how can it provide a big window for a big image and small window for a small image? For me, this is a problem even in Firefox... but in an image editor?

Jakub Friedl

You can make a tab-based interface in a great number of ways and there is no decision on exactly how it should look or work, only that it might make sense with a tab based interface.

I myself picture a toggle in the Windows sub-menu that switches between a one-window tab based layout and the current multi-window layout. Maybe that's a good idea, maybe it's not.

I don't really see a problem with having a small image in a big maximized tab-based window. But again, basically no decision on how to do this has been taken. It is not even 100% it will be done at all...

Also please keep the discussion on the list.

BR, Martin

2009/1/5 Martin Nordholts wrote:

You can make a tab-based interface in a great number of ways and there is no decision on exactly how it should look or work, only that it might make sense with a tab based interface.

I myself picture a toggle in the Windows sub-menu that switches between a one-window tab based layout and the current multi-window layout. Maybe that's a good idea, maybe it's not.

I don't really see a problem with having a small image in a big maximized tab-based window. But again, basically no decision on how to do this has been taken. It is not even 100% it will be done at all...

Is usability team planning to work on this?

Alexandre

I don't really see a problem with having a small image in a big maximized tab-based window.

screen estate is often precious. i often want to see more images at the same time

Also please keep the discussion on the list.

sorry, too fast clicking in an oversimplified GUI interface :)

2009/1/5 Jakub Friedl wrote:

I don't really see a problem with having a small image in a big maximized tab-based window.

screen estate is often precious. i often want to see more images at the same time

This isn't really a problem. GTK+ widget extensions like CurlyAnkles allow both tabbed and tiled content.

Alexandre

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

2009/1/5 Martin Nordholts wrote:

I myself picture a toggle in the Windows sub-menu that switches between
a one-window tab based layout and the current multi-window layout.

me too ;^}

Is usability team planning to work on this?

we plan to work on this when it is road-mapped...

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture

On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 02:28 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

2009/1/5 Jakub Friedl wrote:

I don't really see a problem with having a small image in a big maximized tab-based window.

screen estate is often precious. i often want to see more images at the same time

This isn't really a problem. GTK+ widget extensions like CurlyAnkles allow both tabbed and tiled content.

The real issue is that sometimes one wants to see (or work on) more than one image at a time, or e.g. to compare two views with different filters.

Multiple windows each of which can have tabs might work, like a tabbed Web browser.

Liam

How do tabs work with the idea of docked dialogue windows? Wouldn't each window have the same (or optionally specialised) arrangements of dialogues for each image window? I mean, the main point of the program is editing images so the ui should be focused around the image window.

--MW

Mirai Warren wrote:

Sorry if this was a bit long-winded and tangential, but I hope I clarified my original point

Sorry,
but i still cannot see why a tabbed one-window docked-dialog interface (with option of multiple gimp-windows and maybe a splitable view for two or more images) would not be better than the current n-windows, n-tasks interface so many complain about.

i can only say: I use Photoshop many years now. I love the CS3 interface (which i tried to simulate a little bit in my screen above). It's got a very fast workflow and is costumizable though cutom views (savable).

The only thing i would love in Photoshop that's still missing are tabs to faster access different open images. So why not tabs for quicker navigation?

hOSHI wrote:

Sorry,
but i still cannot see why a tabbed one-window docked-dialog interface (with
option of multiple gimp-windows and maybe a splitable view for two or more
images) would not be better than the current n-windows, n-tasks interface so
many complain about.

because the world does not work like that.

this is a theme where our target audience is split 50–50: half love one-window and hate multi-window, half love multi-window and hate one-window.

that is why we will have _one_ setting in the View menu, that sets the overall strategy to either one-window or multi-window. all further behaviour follows from that.

first rule of interaction design is that you have to exclude your own preferences...

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture

peter sikking wrote:

that is why we will have _one_ setting in the View menu, that sets the overall strategy to either one-window or multi-window.

then, i think, there will be nothing to complain about anymore ;)

2009/2/21 hOSHI :

but i still cannot see why a tabbed one-window docked-dialog interface (with option of multiple gimp-windows and maybe a splitable view for two or more images) would not be better than the current n-windows, n-tasks interface so many complain about.

I missed the 'not' on the third line the first time I read it and agreed with it more =(. Splits are free with the multiple-window interface, and you can even 'split' with other applications, simply by having the windows side by side.

Henk

peter sikking wrote:

that is why we will have _one_ setting in the View menu, that sets the overall strategy to either one-window or multi-window. all further behaviour follows from that.

There could be more settings in the preferences though. Couldn't there?

looking forward to that version ;)

hOSHI wrote:

peter sikking wrote:

that is why we will have _one_ setting in the View menu, that sets the overall strategy to either one-window or multi-window. all further behaviour follows from that.

There could be more settings in the preferences though. Couldn't there?

it is good design practice to avoid that like the plague.

--ps

founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works

http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture

peter sikking wrote:

it is good design practice to avoid that like the plague.

It's a good practice to avoid user comfort through customization? Did i get that right?

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:33 PM, hOSHI wrote:

It's a good practice to avoid user comfort through customization?

Customization is overrated.

Alexandre

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

Customization is overrated.

Then why can i define my own window and statusbar format in gimp? ;]

Von: hOSHI

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

Customization is overrated.

Then why can i define my own window and statusbar format in gimp? ;]

There have been comments that there's too much information shown there, and most of it isn't needed, so imagine what might change in that regard... :)

Regards, Michael

Michael Schumacher wrote:

There have been comments that there's too much information shown there, and most of it isn't needed, so imagine what might change in that regard... :)

i like customization. As long as it is well structured (and maybe accessible only if "advanced options" is checked)

in a professional prog like Gimp there is more of a need to fulfill personal needs than in a simple browser or a imageviewer.

i often changed programs i used, because i couldn't get it do to what i want or need.

so customization isn't always bad, i guess it depends on the intended audience.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM, hOSHI wrote:

(and maybe accessible only if "advanced options" is checked)

Which is also usually considered as bad practice. Sorry :)

Alexandre

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

Which is also usually considered as bad practice. Sorry :)

considered by whom?
in a professional tool there need to be some settings. photoshop/3ds max/blender/maya/openoffice(grin)

they just need to be structured right. maybe settings that are not so important should go for important ones.

In that i would agree.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:37 PM, hOSHI wrote:

Which is also usually considered as bad practice. Sorry :)

considered by whom?
in a professional tool there need to be some settings.

In my long-time observation people who express their opinion in the lines of "fine with me as long as you make it optional" and get what they ask for end up with ultimately cluttered UIs.

A tool should work out of box and help getting the work done right away. When people rely on customization instead, they *usually* create interfaces that require customization *before* you actually can start doing anything. Can you still recall the mess called "This is the first time you run GIMP, so go make yourself a pint of coffee, sit back and go through this long and stupid wizard"? This is why I say that customization is overrated.

What I suggest you is to look really well at your proposal: it basically boils down to making a good deal of proposed functionality not obvious. And while having side-by-side views definitely has a place in workflow of an art-director or a collage designer, hiding correspondent prefs would be a nightmare.

Alexandre

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

A tool should work out of box and help getting the work done right away. When people rely on customization instead, they *usually* create interfaces that require customization *before* you actually can start doing anything.

Okay i agree on that.
I really would love gimp to work as i need it to do right from the start. but as many like it to work otherwise that won't be happening soon ;)

but with dialogs dockable as a default (without settings) i would not mind. (dockable in a main window i mean) ;)

Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

What I suggest you is to look really well at your proposal: it basically boils down to making a good deal of proposed functionality not obvious. And while having side-by-side views definitely has a place in workflow of an art-director or a collage designer, hiding correspondent prefs would be a nightmare.

okay, i see your point.
so let's not use preferences but a nice icon to enable that view ;) i think i like that even better.

(and just one (maybe clustered) transform-tool icon instead of the 6 now)

;)