? ???, 28/02/2008 ? 08:33 +0100, Roman Joost ?????:

Hey folks,

I would like to know:

What is the *most* annoying thing, while editing the manual, documenting the GIMP or anything regarding the manual.

Skipping through the other languages for sure.

-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 191 bytes
Desc: =?koi8-r?Q?=FC=D4=C1?= =?koi8-r?Q?_=DE=C1=D3=D4=D8?= =?koi8-r?Q?_=D3=CF=CF=C2=DD=C5=CE=C9=D1?= =?koi8-r?Q?_=D0=CF=C4=D0=C9=D3=C1=CE=C1?= =?koi8-r?Q?_=C3=C9=C6=D2=CF=D7=CF=CA?= =?koi8-r?Q?_=D0=CF=C4=D0=C9=D3=D8=C0?= Url : /lists/gimp-docs/attachments/20080228/30b1f20e/attachment.bin

tor 2008-02-28 klockan 08:33 +0100 skrev Roman Joost:

What is the *most* annoying thing, while editing the manual, documenting the GIMP or anything regarding the manual.

.. that all languages are located in the same file.

Roman Joost (Donnerstag, 28. Februar 2008, 08:33):

I would like to know:

What is the *most* annoying thing, while editing the manual, documenting the GIMP or anything regarding the manual.

To keep on documenting the same options or buttons ("clicking on the foo button ...") again and again and again ...

The missing native speaker(s) of English.

Ulf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /lists/gimp-docs/attachments/20080228/ca70085e/attachment.bin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Am 28.02.2008 um 18:10 schrieb Ulf-D. Ehlert:

The missing native speaker(s) of English.

[x] me too

lexA

Ulf

What is the *most* annoying thing, while editing the manual, documenting the GIMP or anything regarding the manual.

All languages together.

The problem is not for writing new files nor translating. It is in updating. In some files, the xml structure has to be changed, but we must keep the old version for non-updated languages. This results in two parallel versions.
It's not impossible to manage , but it's a real headhache. And what will happen with the next version? A shambles.

julien

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 08:22:36PM +0100, Axel Wernicke wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Am 28.02.2008 um 18:10 schrieb Ulf-D. Ehlert:

The missing native speaker(s) of English.

[x] me too

[x] me too *

* meaning that they are too few, NOT that they are not working good/enough. As a foreign translator think I have to thank all people that contribute to the english version of the manual. Translating is a work that ask MUCH less effort than writing new and consistent material.

bye

Hi,

2008/2/29, julien :

What is the *most* annoying thing, while editing the manual, documenting the GIMP or anything regarding the manual.

All languages together.

The problem is not for writing new files nor translating. It is in updating.
In some files, the xml structure has to be changed, but we must keep the old version for non-updated languages. This results in two parallel versions.
It's not impossible to manage , but it's a real headhache. And what will happen with the next version? A shambles.

I absolutely have to agree here. At some point we have to throw out dead languages. There simply is no way around this with the current technology.

lexA

julien

_______________________________________________ Gimp-docs mailing list
Gimp-docs at lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-docs

Axel Wernicke wrote:

Hi,

2008/2/29, julien >:

> What is the *most* annoying thing, while editing the manual, > documenting the GIMP or anything regarding the manual. >
>

All languages together.

The problem is not for writing new files nor translating. It is in updating.
In some files, the xml structure has to be changed, but we must keep the
old version for non-updated languages. This results in two parallel versions.
It's not impossible to manage , but it's a real headhache. And what will happen with the next version? A shambles.

I absolutely have to agree here. At some point we have to throw out dead languages. There simply is no way around this with the current technology.

lexA

Some thoughts from a novice:
If this is (will be) a great problem, is it possible to have two separate versions?
Make a copy of the 'gimp-help-2' and delete all dead languages from the original. If some languages awakes from death in the future it is possible to assign the language from the copy together with new translations to the original. (Believe there is a way to go back to the latest translation of an actual language in the original repository, but this could be a troublesome way to do it - searching for the latest version of the language etc.)
Perhaps the gimp-help is too big and complex so this solution is out of question?
Another perhaps: I don't know how to differ between the two versions when generating the html code, but think it should be a simple programming task for someone.

To me the technical barrier was most frustrating. Not used to the Linux jargon and ways of thinking, I had to jump into a new world. To me it was interesting, but I do think many possible translators are giving up somewhere on the road due to too much technical stuff. Wishes: A simple program where I can do my translation only and the program is doing the rest. Must be running on all platforms without coding errors. I know some attempts, but have not found the ultimate one. (I'm still working with Notepad++ on Windows XP).

BTW: Go on with the good habit using comments like TODO's etc. They are very helpful.
Kolbj?rn

julien

_______________________________________________ Gimp-docs mailing list
Gimp-docs at lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-docs

Kolbj?rn Stuest?l (Samstag, 1. M?rz 2008, 18:55):

Axel Wernicke wrote:

2008/2/29, julien >:
The problem is not for writing new files nor translating. It is in updating.
In some files, the xml structure has to be changed, but we must keep the
old version for non-updated languages. This results in two parallel versions.
It's not impossible to manage , but it's a real headhache. And what will happen with the next version? A shambles.

I absolutely have to agree here. At some point we have to throw out dead languages. There simply is no way around this with the current technology.

lexA

Some thoughts from a novice:
If this is (will be) a great problem, is it possible to have two separate versions?

We could create a subversion branch and then use "trunk" for 2.6 and "branches/gimp-help-2-4" for 2.4, similar to "gimp/trunk" and "gimp/branches/gimp-2-4".

We would then have to commit most of our changes twice, and I'm not sure if this would solve or create problems, though.

Ulf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /lists/gimp-docs/attachments/20080302/8d100a95/attachment.bin

Roman Joost wrote:

Hi Kolbj?rn,

On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 06:55:17PM +0100, Kolbj?rn Stuest?l wrote:

Some thoughts from a novice:
If this is (will be) a great problem, is it possible to have two separate versions?
Make a copy of the 'gimp-help-2' and delete all dead languages from the original. If some languages awakes from death in the future it is possible to assign the language from the copy together with new translations to the original.

Actually this has been done already after every release. The gimp-help-2 module is tagged in the repository:

http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gimp-help-2/tags/

This means, if you checkout a specific tag of the gimp-help-2 module, you view the state which was saved before the release (incl. old languages). Though, getting back for new translators those old translations is not as easy as they would be left in the source code.

But I would argue in favor of the authors here. Throw the old languages out...

(Believe there is a way to go back to the latest translation of an actual language in the original repository, but this could be a troublesome way to do it - searching for the latest version of the language etc.)
Perhaps the gimp-help is too big and complex so this solution is out of question?

Could be a reason. Maybe splitting the whole manual into a reference and a tutorial part cold solve the mass of documentation. But I think this is a technical problem we're facing here (like the translations all together in one big file) and need to solve.

Another perhaps: I don't know how to differ between the two versions when generating the html code, but think it should be a simple programming task for someone.

What do you mean by that?

Thought of running two versions of gimp-help, one for the living languages and one for the dead. But I see that's a useful way of doing it.

To me the technical barrier was most frustrating.

I can imagine...

Not used to the Linux jargon and ways of thinking, I had to jump into a new world. To me it was interesting, but I do think many possible translators are giving up somewhere on the road due to too much technical stuff.
Wishes: A simple program where I can do my translation only and the program is doing the rest. Must be running on all platforms without coding errors. I know some attempts, but have not found the ultimate one. (I'm still working with Notepad++ on Windows XP).

Have you contributed to other translating projects? What for software did they use, if so?

No, at the moment I'm working on GIMP only. As for most of us, this is a more or less time comsuming spare time job. I like to speak to my wife and the rest of the family sometimes too :-) I'm a member of a couple of mailing lists for translators (Norwegian) but no one have found the ultimate program for this job as far as I know. Some suggestions? (I'm still using Windows and a dialed up modem ("capacity problems" the company says), so downloading lots of Mb is out of question).
Kolbjoern

Greetings,

------------------------------------------------------------------------