On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 10:28:04AM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:

Since the change of gimp-manual stylesheet, some images with white backgroud now appear as not color mached as before.

See for example the trunk/html/en/gimp-concepts-usage.html

The white background was convenient (IHMO) as was more appropriate even for a printed version of the manual.

Is it possible to mantain che white background color while mantaining the new look-style of, for example, onlty the header and the footer?

Hm... maybe even better... Why not use a white background only for figures?

Greetings,

Hi Marco,

the magic word here is transparency. These graphics have to be redone for 2.4 anyways, so I think this is a good chance to make the manual independant of the background color. It doesn't matter whether we talk about a red, gray or brown background - the graphics should not contain any background color. So, I'd suggest we stick to the dark background for now, because it is the only way to see where the problems are. Hiding them is not a solution.

Just my 2c,

lexA

2007/9/3, Marco Ciampa :

Since the change of gimp-manual stylesheet, some images with white backgroud
now appear as not color mached as before.

See for example the trunk/html/en/gimp-concepts-usage.html

The white background was convenient (IHMO) as was more appropriate even for a
printed version of the manual.

Is it possible to mantain che white background color while mantaining the new look-style of, for example, onlty the header and the footer?

bye

--

Marco Ciampa

+--------------------+ | Linux User #78271 |
| FSFE fellow #364 |
+--------------------+
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On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 11:16:48AM +0200, Axel Wernicke wrote:

Hi Marco,

the magic word here is transparency. These graphics have to be redone for 2.4 anyways, so I think this is a good chance to make the manual independant of the background color. It doesn't matter whether we talk about a red, gray or brown background - the graphics should not contain any background color. So, I'd suggest we stick to the dark background for now, because it is the only way to see where the problems are. Hiding them is not a solution.

I would agree with you in terms of the transparence background, but that would raise some problems with the 'numbers' pointing to specific regions. Those are currently black and white. Having a transparent background means, that those numbers are not very well visible by the people.

Having a well defined background color (like white) means, that we don't have to care of layout changes :)

Greetings,

On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 01:49:02PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:

1)

Having a well defined background color (like white) means, that we don't have to care of layout changes :)

and I add

2) manual figures are visible even with old browsers that do not support png transparency

Hm... I wouldn't go that far. Most modern browsers support PNG transparency. Even the internet explorer. If you're using an old browser, you should be aware of glitches in the rendered result.

3) printing is safe without using special stylesheets (with the risk of producing not well visible pages that were not so with dark background..) and without using much colour ink (expensive with inkjet and laserprinters).

That's why it's possible to create stylesheets for various medias. Having a print styleshet isn't too cumbersome to implement.

Please, stylesheet experts, revert the background!

Hm.. reverting the entire screen to white isn't necessary IMO. Just the figures would be fine...

Greetings,

Hi,

2007/9/3, Roman Joost :

On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 01:49:02PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:

1)

Having a well defined background color (like white) means, that we

don't

have to care of layout changes :)

and I add

2) manual figures are visible even with old browsers that do not support

png

transparency

Hm... I wouldn't go that far. Most modern browsers support PNG transparency. Even the internet explorer. If you're using an old browser, you should be aware of glitches in the rendered result.

3) printing is safe without using special stylesheets (with the risk of producing not well visible pages that were not so with dark

background..)

and without using much colour ink (expensive with inkjet and

laserprinters).
That's why it's possible to create stylesheets for various medias. Having a print styleshet isn't too cumbersome to implement.

Agreed. In my opinion is it a pretty stupid idea to print from thousands of html pages, if a perfect printable pdf is just one klick away.

Please, stylesheet experts, revert the background!

Hm.. reverting the entire screen to white isn't necessary IMO. Just the figures would be fine...

So lets make the bg of figure bright and see what it looks like. The darkish appeareance is IMHO going to be the new 2.4 style in many places, e.g. gimp.org as well as graphics applications in general and the GIMP fullscreen mode in special - I like the idea of a distinctive 2.4 look (of the manual). Remember, we just started working on the 2.4 manual. There is no need to rush out a new release of the manual in the next couple of weeks. We now lay the foundation for a manual cycle that lasts a couple of years again (til 2.6 will be released).

Greetings, lexA

Greetings,

--
Roman Joost
www: http://www.romanofski.de
email: romanofski at gimp.org

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In all cases, I don't like this new html display: - Too many colors : this reminds me newbie fanzines. Colors are not useful for titles : the text looks less important than the title. Different sizes are better.

- Too bright colors (too much contrast with the black background) in notes and warnings. Keycap boxes should have a darker background.

- guilabels are in a too large box. If this is not changed, I will be obliged to replace them with emphasis.

Julien

On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 01:49:02PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:

1)

Having a well defined background color (like white) means, that we don't have to care of layout changes :)

and I add

2) manual figures are visible even with old browsers that do not support png transparency

Hm... I wouldn't go that far. Most modern browsers support PNG transparency. Even the internet explorer. If you're using an old browser, you should be aware of glitches in the rendered result.

3) printing is safe without using special stylesheets (with the risk of producing not well visible pages that were not so with dark background..) and without using much colour ink (expensive with inkjet and laserprinters).

That's why it's possible to create stylesheets for various medias. Having a print styleshet isn't too cumbersome to implement.

Please, stylesheet experts, revert the background!

Hm.. reverting the entire screen to white isn't necessary IMO. Just the figures would be fine...

Greetings,
------------------------------------------------------------------------

great, so at least we finally produced some feedback!

2007/9/3, julien :

In all cases, I don't like this new html display: - Too many colors : this reminds me newbie fanzines. Colors are not useful for titles : the text looks less important than the title. Different sizes are better.

The colors (except the bluish varlist headings) are taken one to one from next.gimp.org. So far the varlist headings have been green, but this didn't work well for the dark background. I personally think some color won't hurt for lists, but I wouldn't die for this.

- Too bright colors (too much contrast with the black background) in

notes and warnings. Keycap boxes should have a darker background.

If this is something the others agree, we of course can fine tune the colors.

- guilabels are in a too large box. If this is not changed, I will be

obliged to replace them with emphasis.

The guilable / guimenu problem indeed needs to be fixed.

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