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GFDL translations

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GFDL translations Marco Ciampa 01 May 17:07
GFDL translations kol-stue at online.no (Kolbj 01 May 22:31
GFDL translations William Skaggs 05 May 17:33
  GFDL translations Marco Ciampa 05 May 20:55
20070504081420.GA1506@ciamp... 07 Oct 20:29
  GFDL translations Roman Joost 04 May 17:35
   GFDL translations Axel Wernicke 05 May 05:51
    GFDL translations julien 05 May 07:42
Marco Ciampa
2007-05-01 17:07:24 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

Hello everybody,
I would ear some comments by all the translation teams on a subject: the translation of the GFDL licence under which the GUM is distributed.

I would like to embed into the html/pdf translated version, only the most famous unofficial translated italian version (that is this: http://www.softwarelibero.it/gnudoc/fdl.it.html) with a clear link to the REAL english version that could be distributed _with_ the package but not incorporated into the text. Plus a clear text _in_ the maual that states that the italian version is _not_ official neither legally valid and that only the untranslated english version is official and legal.

This because an english text into a completely translated manual is IMHO a nonsense. If someone read the text in italian is clear that he/she is not able to read in english. This could even be counter-productive since the reader is not able do figure by him/herself what he/she could and could not do with the GUM manual (i.e. the licence restrictions).

I've already seen paper books published in Italy with such a compromise so what do you think about it?

bye

kol-stue at online.no (Kolbj
2007-05-01 22:31:26 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

To me it looks like a good idea for all languages (- English of course). Perhaps a short version in the native language with a link to the valid english version?
Kolbjoern

Kolbj?rn Stuest?l
Stuest?l
N4580 Lyngdal
webside: http://home.online.no/~kol-stue/

----- Original Message ---

Roman Joost
2007-05-04 17:35:24 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

Hi Marco,

On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 10:14:20AM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:

For the reasons that you have cutted by this reply, IMHO it is a nonsense having a license in english in an italian manual. Who does read (and understand) it? The reader? Then why he/she should read the italian manual? The english is more complete/updated...if you can directly read it...

Got the point?

Yeh - I understand your concerns. But here it comes to applicable law and what people are allowed to with our manual.

I'm not a law expert, but what I know of is the fact, that the italian or german (or any other european translation of the license) doesn't apply for any legal concerns. The english original applies.

So wether our readers can understand the english original or not, it's the original one under which the manual is distributed. The italian translation is just to help our reader to be able to understand what the license is about. We need to ship the english original anyways...

I'm sorry but, I know my compatriots knowledge of the english language... :-( I really want to lower any linguistic barrier on using free software and together with spreading the knowledge of what the free software really is. A translated license could be really useful for this.

It is indeed, but it wouldn't fulfill it's purpose I'm afraid :(

PS: I'm sending a copy to the mailinglist, because I think this was a topic discussed on the list.

Cheers,

Axel Wernicke
2007-05-05 05:51:59 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

Hi,

may be the best solution is to let the englisch version (which is the _only_ one that counts when lawyers come into play) as it is right now, but add a containing a link to the most serious translation of the license for each language. This tipp must clearly be marked as not beeing the license of the documentation, but beeing an offer to give the user a raw idea what he/she is allowed to do with the manual.

Can we get consensus on that?

Greetings, lexA

Am 04.05.2007 um 11:35 schrieb Roman Joost:

Hi Marco,

On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 10:14:20AM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:

For the reasons that you have cutted by this reply, IMHO it is a nonsense
having a license in english in an italian manual. Who does read (and understand) it? The reader? Then why he/she should read the italian manual?
The english is more complete/updated...if you can directly read it...

Got the point?

Yeh - I understand your concerns. But here it comes to applicable law and what people are allowed to with our manual.

I'm not a law expert, but what I know of is the fact, that the italian or german (or any other european translation of the license) doesn't apply for any legal concerns. The english original applies.

So wether our readers can understand the english original or not, it's the original one under which the manual is distributed. The italian translation is just to help our reader to be able to understand what the
license is about. We need to ship the english original anyways...

I'm sorry but, I know my compatriots knowledge of the english language... :-( I really want to lower any linguistic barrier on using
free software and together with spreading the knowledge of what the free software really is. A translated license could be really useful for this.

It is indeed, but it wouldn't fulfill it's purpose I'm afraid :(

PS: I'm sending a copy to the mailinglist, because I think this was a topic discussed on the list.

Cheers,

julien
2007-05-05 07:42:35 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

OK, I agree.

Julien

Axel Wernicke a ?crit :

Hi,

may be the best solution is to let the englisch version (which is the _only_ one that counts when lawyers come into play) as it is right now, but add a containing a link to the most serious translation of the license for each language. This tipp must clearly be marked as not beeing the license of the documentation, but beeing an offer to give the user a raw idea what he/she is allowed to do with the manual.

Can we get consensus on that?

Greetings, lexA

William Skaggs
2007-05-05 17:33:43 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

Since I haven't yet seen it mentioned in this discussion, let me direct your attention to

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html

That page goes over the suggested way of dealing with translations of the various GNU licenses, including the GFDL, which I think is pretty close to the way you have decided on. Unfortunately, they don't yet list an Italian translation of the latest version of the GFDL.

-- Bill


______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu

Marco Ciampa
2007-05-05 20:55:12 UTC (over 17 years ago)

GFDL translations

On Sat, May 05, 2007 at 08:33:43AM -0700, William Skaggs wrote:

Since I haven't yet seen it mentioned in this discussion, let me direct your attention to

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html

That page goes over the suggested way of dealing with translations of the various GNU licenses, including the GFDL, which I think is pretty close to the way you have decided on. Unfortunately, they don't yet list an Italian translation of the latest version of the GFDL.

This piece reflect precisely my thoughts:

We give permission to publish translations of the GPL, GFDL, or LGPL into other languages, provided that you (1) label your translations as unofficial (see below for how to do this), to inform people that they do not count legally as substitutes for the authentic version, and (2) you agree to install changes at our request, if we learn from other friends of GNU that changes are necessary to make the translation clearer.

To label your translations as unofficial we want you to add the following text at the beginning, both in English and in the language of the translation?replacing language with the name of that language:

"This is an unofficial translation of the GNU General Public License into language. It was not published by the Free Software Foundation, and does not legally state the distribution terms for software that uses the GNU GPL?only the original English text of the GNU GPL does that. However, we hope that this translation will help language speakers understand the GNU GPL better."

So I'll consider it whenever we (italians) will have an "official" unofficial translation of the gfdl 1.2.

Thank you for pointing out this.