Hi eveybody,

to give a few more information about why I did some things the way I did:

language selection:
selecting the language from within GIMP and setting it to another language than the system one, will result in a mixed language of the Apple menu. Some items have the system language, some have the inside-GIMP-language.
Setting language via System Preferences will always give consitent results.

Choosing a different language can be done - for testing purposes or whatever - as on any other platform - via command line. On OS X an application _should_ be called via the "open" command and not via a call to the binary inside the bundle. Why? "open" ensures, that everything the bundle specifies (either by its Info.plist or by startup scripts) get's properly set up, a dircet call of the binary will very likely not ensure this.

To call GIMP via command line use: open -a GIMP

@ Michael: I got a head -> desk scenario too, when I first saw the language selector in GIMP ;-)

Anyway, if heaven relies on having the langugae selector inside GIMP, well, you'll get it. But please, any questions about mixed languages in menus or other stuff related to this unexpected behaviour should be answered by those of you, who want this selector. I'll forward these questions to the 'official' GIMP user mailing list.

Now about supported OS versions:
There are various reasons:
a) building for 10.6 requires a Mac capable to run at least Lion and my old MacBook sometimes won't work
b) cross compiling for SnowLeopard requires the 10.6 SDK to be supported by Xcode. This is only true up to Xcode 4.x. and therefor one needs at least Lion. (see a))
c) Apple has stopped support for 10.6 There aren't any updates, even no security updates for 10.6. (Shellshock) I don't want to support a non supported, and potentially unsecure OS
d) all Macs capable of running 64bit SnowLeopard (the former packages were 64bit only) are able to run Lion.

And one last thing.

"GIMP on OS should, IMO, be as close to OS X UI standards as possible. This consistent user experience is one of the main features of every desktop environment.That's what I call "native OS X application". If you want the Linux look-and-feel, well install Linux, at least in a VM. That would really make it easy to run GIMP with all UI options you like, plugins, scripts, command line options and all other stuff out there ....

Hi

hier ist noch ein super Bericht über GIMP http://your-foto.de/gimp-tricks-zum-verbessern-eigener-bilder/

Would be nice to get a statement of Lisanet itself, why she continues to update Gimp only for newer Mac Os versions.

@Michael:
Thank you!
I noticed previously that, on Windows 7 64-bit, with Gimp 2.8.10 set to French:

set LANG=en
gimp-2.8.exe

would start Gimp in French, but I did not think of resetting to system language, as I could set the language to English with the Preferences.

But I have just tried, and it works. This is interesting, but I definitely prefer to start in English. Translations are often inaccurate and made by people who don't understand everything.

Francois, setting the language (and other locale-specific thing) via environment variables is covered in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675554

This is supposed to work if the language setting is set to System Default in GIMP's preferences (but only then).

@Michael (ops, the next one!) ;)
I think Lisanet acts in her best intentions to port a Mac-like Gimp, which isnt a bad thing. On the other side, sticking too much with Apples guidelines breaks the portability and the freedom to use the Gimp on the long term.

@Michael:
About setting the language from inside the application, I was a bit disappointed at first, especially when I noticed that I could no longer set the language from the command line as previously (Simone says it is still possible, and I suppose she is right, but I could not do it on Windows using my usual commands). This happened when I had to test whether Gimp would properly open raw files through UFRaw when not set to French.
But I finally concluded that this was not a bad idea, since the user can freely select the Gimp language without using a command line or a launcher, which had been required by many users long before. My Gimp is still in English, and maybe I'll never revert to French even if the issue with UFRaw is fixed.

Please note that Simone (Lisanet) follows a different goal with her GIMP builds than the GIMP developers - she wants to confirm it to the OSX guidelines as closely as possible, and doesn't refrain from removing functionality to achieve this - for example setting the application language inside an application does against the OSX guidelines, and so:

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list/2014-September/msg00051.html

"I meant that my builds don’t support setting the locale within GIMP. And, I disabled the code intentionally."

Needless to say, this came as a shock (and at least for me, caused a real head->desk scenario). So, at least to me, this attitude makes it really difficult to judge her GIMP builds - on one side it is great that many people build GIMP on each platform, but I think such changes may be a danger to GIMP in the long run.

>only a Harry potter like skill: if you know the spell, you'll succeed
:D
you are right!
as i remember correctly, i compiled already something from source, years ago, it was the X11 environment from source, using Fink. But this process lasted half an hour or more, as i remember. Hm…i'm not used with installations of this kind.

But know what: I'll see if i can compile Gimp from source using my terminal on a earlier version of Mac, naturally. ;)

@jo:
I can compile Gimp for Windows and Linux. On Windows, it can be a bit tricky, but Sylvie Alexandre provides turnkey compiling environments for Windows:
http://www.aljacom.com/~gimp/divers.html
which allow compiling Gimp, G'mic and most Gimp plugins.
On Linux, it is not true science, only a Harry potter like skill: if you know the spell, you'll succeed. Open a console in the directory with the configure file, then type ./configure CFLAGS=-s (in order to remove debugging symbols). If there is an error, just install the missing development package. Then: make (and make install if you don't copy manually).
On Windows, you must have the right packages, then nearly same commands, but ./configure CFLAGS=-s LDFLAGS =-mwindows (in order to set the bit of the Windows PE binary to "no console").
I suppose it would not be much different on OSX.

@ Francois
yes, Linux users are more Geeks ;)
Mac users instead enjoy a premade package, which is also a selling strategy. I code with bash shell for a couple of years now, and have some insight what my machine can do apart to displaying a nice GUI. :D
I never tried to compile an app from source code, would not know where to begin

I think, and this is my opinion- that Lisanet continues to jump Os versions, because she presumes that everybody else accepts always Apples politics.
Moreover, it looks like that Developer tools bundled in never Os releases dismiss slowly but silently the support for older Os versions, hindering developers to port software effectively for earlier versions. The nut must be there!

>an we do on Linux, but for free;)
:D

@ Michael
no conspiracies, only rumors about Mac Users unhappy of Apples politics. I enjoyed (and still enjoy) every release of Lisa's Gimp ports, because she does a fantastic job. But i understand what you mean and subscribe your comment

"If we compile GIMP on OSX version X, will it also run on X-.1, X-.2, ..., and is there something that has to be done top the build system for that?" was a question that popped up some weeks ago on the #gimp irc channel.

Finding verifiable clues for answering those questions is where energy should be spent, not speculations about possible conspiracies.

As few Mac users are likely to be able to compile Gimp (1), I often wondered whether Apple was involved in providing Gimp compilations. This would explain this increasing OS version requirement;)
Or is there a technical explanation? Mac OS is a Linux, and maybe you need the most recent libraries, an we do on Linux, but for free;)

(1) Linux users are often techies, Windows users are many. (Don't worry: we also know multitasking on Linux and Windows)...

Hi there, and sorry if my post turns out so long, but i'd have some important questions to ask:
Is multitasking a reason/excuse to justify Gimps's higher Os Version requirements?

On Mac OsX, multitasking isn't a new technology, and neither on other Os systems, as i guess.
Actually i'm on Mac Os Lion and i guarantee you, its a Lion not only by name but also from its calculation power, combined with a Mac Pro! But enough with Apple-advertising.
What i want to say is that i'm frightened by Gimp's increasing Os Version requirements. By all respect, and the amount of work Lisanet puts into her Mac Os build, but i think she should not follow Apple's uninterrupted rhythm of marketing trends, but stay tuned with all the users around the world. Not everybody has always the money to buy new computers able to run the latest Mac Os versions.
Older Mac users (i'd say, running from Snow Leopard and up) should have the same right as well as new Mac users, to get the latest stable Gimp version at full speed running on their Os.

I can't understand why Gimp continues to jump older Os versions preferring always newer Os builds. Snow Leopard and Lion should have enough power under the hood to launch Gimp's performance, like a rocket, to the stars, or at least, guarantee a long support because of this specs. Gimp needs to appear in the Apple Appstore? who cares about the Appstore? do you need apps like a daily meal? please, i get a goose-skin only to think about this playground consumerism.

Probably you might ask why i have such concerns to upgrade Os, although the last Mac Os versions were free. :D
Its illusory and simple to believe - that upgrading Os improves everything and always. Such absolute things doesn't exist.
I see the upgrading story only as a favor to reach and "buy" new users. Whats with the regular customers, who loved Gimp since its appearance ?
The old users probably, are the most involved and expert users who deserve more attention than the greenhorns playing with the Gimp only for 5 minutes

The reason why i hate to upgrade Os:
I want not: to change a flawlessly running Os, because of a newer Os Version. I want not: a newer eye-candy Os. (Lion is already nice, more isn't needed). I want not: to upgrade my Os because of One application that requires/dictates it. I want not: malfunctioning or broken software because a new Os-i need a certain environment of applications. And most important of all-I want not: to change always software to protect my Mac and my work on it. I hope i could clarify my point of view.

No one was hurt.

Regarding the analysis you mentioned: don't think that this requires reading GIMP's source code. The missing information would often be quite trivial - if the person reporting a bug had thought about adding it in the first place.

For example, some people don't tell us what GIMP version they use. Such bugs tend to end up in the NEEDINFO state, waiting for the bug reporter (or someone else) to provide the missing information:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEEDINFO&product=GIMP

@ Michael Schumacher,
Photography has been my main hobby for some 60 years. I adopted digital photography in 2007 ( with some reluctance I confess). I then discovered photo editing with GIMP the same year and I daresay that I am quite familiar with it now and I appreciate the work that you all do as developers. As a 76 years old retiree, I am totally unable to diagnose the origin of bugs: I wish I could ! I noticed the missing icons in 2.8.14 and read about other bugs which are apparently hard to solve, hence my decision to downgrade to 2.8.10, "waiting for better days". I do not believe that bugs will somehow be fixed magically. My apologies if developers were hurt by my comments !
Thank you to all GIMP developers who provide us retirees with a tool which is both affordable and higly efficient...
Cheers, Guy Poizat (gpzt)
PS: besides, french is my native language, which doesn't help !

Most of the recently reported problems seem to be caused by libcairo: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=736964&hide_resolved=1

What some people do is to use the libcairo from an earlier version, and use GIMP 2.8.14 with that.

P.S. some people seem to think that waiting for new releases will magically fix bugs.

It doesn't.

You better make sure that they are reported in time, and have all the information that's needed. Keep an eye on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=GIMP

I guessed that would be the case gpzt. Thanks for the followup. :)

@Lyle,
After an early experience with 2.8.14 I decided to downgrade to 2.8.10 and wait for better days. Up till now I don't see any reason why I should make another attempt for the time being. According to the official site, some of the bugs are still unsolved...

Is it now safe to install 2.8.14 (still have 2.8.10). Gun shy after the recent release of 2.8.12 (buggy) and early version of 2.8.14 (still buggy). :)

You are right, Michael. This is:
http://sourceforge.net/p/ufraw/discussion/434060/thread/10e9efa8/
Meanwhile I am enjoying an English-speaking Gimp which is fully compatible with UFRaw;)

I see - that would be http://sourceforge.net/p/ufraw/discussion/434060/thread/10e9efa8/

You should add a link there to this discussion here.

It is absolutely possible that the UFRaw developers might investigate this and point out a bug in GIMP - but at this point, we don't know where exactly this fails, only that this is when loading a raw file, and UFRaw handles those -> first level support UFRaw.

Michae, I reported to the UFRaw developers just after I answered here.
As there has been a longtime question about UFRaw not sending images to Gimp 2.8, I thought it would be useful.
On Linux, of course, UFRaw is completely localized, with even commas instead of decimal points.
I'll study localization on POSIX and Microsoft platforms...

Francois, it doesn't matter at all whether you have installed localisations - the language is only one part of the locale - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locale for an introduction of what this setting may affect, and how diverse you can set it up (at least if your system or app honors all the POSIX variables).

You will only get further by contacting the UFRaw developers and telling them about this.

(Continuation, to Michael)
Read ARW instead of RAF. I have been interested in RAF for several months before;)

Though it happens with UFRaw, I thought it was connected with the way Gimp opens the files, at least XML and ARW.
You may be right, but the 0.20 version of UFRaw I use on Windows is not even localized, that is I did not set a locale path when compiling. I only copied the binaries into the proper folders, all messages are in English. Would it mean that, only according to the system default, UFRaw swaps . and , within XCF files and swaps 2C and 2E whilst opening RAF files? It think it is unlikely. Or I misunderstood something.

Francois, if you are investigating a problem with UFRaw in certain locales, then you should first ask its developers and look in that code, not GIMP's.

(If Michael is still around)
Do you know which file the swap of commas and decimal points for French could be done? gimpfileops_pdb.c?

@billn:
Good old C. No interpreted languages. But it implements Python and Scheme interpreters that allow writing new commands.

What programming language is Gimp written in? C, C++, python, ruby, etc?

Jenkins is a continuous integration tool:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenkins_%28software%29

Basically, this builds GIMP after any commit of changed code.

GIMP's instance of it is hosted at http://build.gimp.org

The tutorial mentioned in the release news explains what Jenkins is, how it is used by the GIMP project, its benefits, and such:

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/plain/devel-docs/Jenkins-Tutorial.odt?h=gimp-2-8

I have a dumb question? What is Jenkins tutorial?

(Continuation of my answer to Michael)
I have checked UFRaw with Gimp set to English. Send to Gimp works too!
Translations are a curse! the nostalgia of Babel...

I just answered the previous question, I would not even think of integrating RT to Gimp, of course, Michael: I know both codes, the sources are on my computer, and I can see it would be crazy;)
I'll look at the decimal separators definitions, and see whether I can, at least on my system, revert to the same as in English: since the 80's we have been used to the English ones, and now they want to give us back the old ones. In LibreOffice, when you type a dot with the numpad, it writes a comma! and when you don't care, it installs by default a Zulu spell-checker.

Francois, such things usually happen because the locale definitions differ in regard to e.g. decimal separators (, vs .).

This is sometimes quite dangerous, and usually at least annoying. Have you reported it to the UFRaw maintainers?

And instead of adding more and more to GIMP, we actually seek to remove stuff that is better maintained somewhere else - adding the RawTherapee code would be insane, given that it is an appliaction of its own.

[Continuation of my last post)
The issue with UFRaw probably comes from the first bytes of the files (49 49 2A) which are the same for ARW and TIFF files. But why in French and not in English?
And I also noticed an issue with the standalone UFRaw on both Linux and Windows: the XML code from UFRaw is no longer properly recognized and the "send to Gimp" operation fails.

@bilin:
Unfortunately, it would be lost too complicated, especially with a very old code with many casual patches like that of Gimp.
Keeping a good compatibility with UFRaw would be more realistic. To the moment, I'm using a home-built 64-bit copy of UFRaw 0.20 (current CVS version) on both my Win64 and Ubuntu systems, and I notice a strange bug: When the Language preference is set to French, Sony ARW files are considered TIFF and not properly opened (even if I select "raw image" instead of "all images". When I set the language to English US, everything is OK...

Could the code from rawtherapee not be copies or merged into gimp?

BTW, to set some things straight:

The problems experienced with the first 2.8.14 Windows installer weren't due to bugs in the GIMP code, but with the libraries that the installer package contained - GTK+ 2.24.23 in this case. With GTK+ 2.24.24 and the very same GIMP code - and IIRC not even a rebuild of it, but the same binaries - the missing icons and the crash on Windows resize bugs are gone.

The wrong display if the spacing character in the zoom drop down is still there, even with an updated libpango.

These are the following bug reports:

Resolved:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735501
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735507

Unresolved:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735505

A good starting point to browse or search for documented bugs in GIMP is:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=GIMP

The Mark Shuttleworth offer is explained in detail in http://dneary.free.fr/gimp_bounties.html - with references to the original mails.

This is also a reason for the reservations of several people from the GIMP team about bounty-driven development.

If I remember correctly Mark Shuttleworth was going to hire a programmer to work full time on Gimp. He hired someone for a test run then after a month or two of no progress gave up.

I'll thank them when we get high bit color depth!. Photokenia is coming up, will GIMP devs be present to ask the professional photographers what they need in a pixel editor. Probably not!. Since one feature they will insist on is high bit color depth. Something many other proprietary programs can offer. And we will probably not see it for another year or two. 2.9.1 is a dev version with bugs. Maybe Krita and Gimp should be merged into one program. since Krita already supports high bit color depth and has a more professional looking interface. Dump GTK!.

Agreed, all developers should be thanked for the marvelous job they are continually doing and do not need to be treated with disdain. There is even free support for the program at Gimp Chat (nearly 24 hourly too) and other places

I fully agree with Francois. We should appreciate the team who developed the GIMP and all for FREE. Please use kinder words unless you can contribute. Thanks

@Bob,
As Boileau (french author of the 17th) wrote: " La critique est aisée mais l' art est difficile " (criticism is easy but Art is difficult)...

@Bob
I often complained about Gimp developers introducing useless features instead of working on high bit color depth, but I don't agree with you.
First these developers work for free, they are few, and you could help them a little if you are really concerned with FOSS. Their work is not "shit".
High bit color depth is already available in Gimp 2.9. It is not a millenium away. Just change your PPA to gimp-edge.
And I hope the model of Photoshop is not the future of photo editors: they are going subscription-only for nearly $20 a month! This is the new legal version of ransomware! If you cease to pay, the software will no longer work! Windows or Apple users if they get unemployed, for instance, will no longer be able to use the software they purchased.

Thrills. Where is the high bit color depth feature!!. Or will that take another year or two!. Photoshop, and PSP a millennium ahead of GIMP. Linux users once again forced to use a product with shit color support.

Karl, please read the thread. Others have the same issue too,

@Me2014
It happens to everybody, alas.

In windows, there is some kind of but with the buttons in gimp 2.8.14, the buttons are there, but you can't see them. You have to remember where are they in order to use them... does this happen to someone else?

@Galidari:
I thought the Gimp Ubuntu PPA didn't provide this version, but I did not remember I temporarily removed ppa:otto-kesselgulasch/gimp from my sources list because it provided a buggy version of LightZone!

If you did not build Gimp by yourself (which is really easy on Linux, provided the right dependencies are installed), I suppose your version came from the PPA I fortunately removed.

Gimp 2.8.14 has interface problems: buttons in windows are not visible (but do work). See also https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735501 Best to keep Gimp 2.8.10

@Galidari,
Do as I did: follow François's advice ! Downgrade to 2.8.10 and wait for better days.

No matter what I do I absolutely cannot stop Gimp 2.8.14 from crashing. Nothing works. I've tried it in Ubuntu. I've tried it in Windows 8. It always manages to crash whenever I'm using the select rectangle tool. Whenever I try to enter the numerical values for the size of the rectangle into the dialogue boxes it goes gray then won't respond. This has happened at least TEN TIMES today alone. What gives with this thing lately? It's never let me down before!

Hi! My only and single question: Is there any reaction from
the Gimp staff about what happened in the last couple of days ? When is Gimp 2.8.16 expected to appear ?

Hi! My only and single question: Is there any reaction from
the Gimp staff about what happened in the last couple of days ? When is Gimp 2.8.16 expected to appear ?

@gpzt:
I downgraded to 2.8.10 as soon as I saw the version was that bullshit.
This happens precisely when Adobe raises the anger of most users by going subscription-only and drastically increasing the cost of their graphic apps. Let's hope it's a coincidence!

I must confess I was overenthusiastic two days ago: as far as I can remember as a gimp user for some 7 years, this version might be the buggiest of all !
Can hardly wait for an update

I also have detected that "objet" resizing, or when using transformation grid at 16 bits color depth causes gimp to crash.... This also occurs at previous versions of 2.8

A personal splash screen

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204097033603361&set=a.1293083604436.2044915.1150677460&type=1&theater

Thanks gedon.
So, a totally buggy release. Ubuntu PPA did not even deign to consider it, happily!

@ Francois and Kepa,
there are other bugs as well, i.e. crash when resizing the window (but that seems to be limited to 32 bit systems).

I already filed that bugs at Bugzilla yesterday. Hope it will be fixed soon.

I also have the same problem with icos at panel box. They are missing, only can see anchor and add layer icons.

Also , "justification" is not working in Text Tool , there is nothing selectable, i only can see a little "checkbox" that is not updateable....

Kenfoong is right: the icons are missing at the bottom of the box. To me this is a serious ergonomic drawback.
As there is absolutely no profit installing this no version, no one should use it, except those who use Gimp on tablets (?) or those with OSX who are bothered by thinking the code is not clean.
I revert to 2.8.10

The 2.8.14, no longer can display the little logo at the bottom of the box. For example Layers tab, you can only see the anchor and add layer button. On the Tool Option Tab you can only see the reset button. The functions are still there but the buttons are not visible

Seems to work flawlessly (Windows 7 64-bit). Happily, I didn't try 2.8.12 yesterday. Thanks my guardian angel!
To me, the installer by Jernej should not delete the previous versions without notification: I always have to temporarily rename my Program Files/Gimp-2.0 folder with Gimp 2.6.12 32 bits - kept for old plugins compatibility (pspi for instance).

Hi,
I downloaded 2.8.14 a few minutes ago and it seems to be working perfectly (Windows 8.1 Professional 64 bits). Didn't try 2.8.12 yesterday because it wasn't considered "stable" according to Gimp's french site.
Keep us informed ! Cheers, gpzt.